Talk:Microwave auditory effect: Difference between revisions

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== Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2020 ==
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:Source:
:https://www.wired.com/2008/05/army-removes-pa/ [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:8C27:4F8A:55D4:7308:3985:8266|2607:FB91:8C27:4F8A:55D4:7308:3985:8266]] ([[User talk:2607:FB91:8C27:4F8A:55D4:7308:3985:8266|talk]]) 01:18, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
{{Edit semi-protected|Microwave auditory effect|answered=yes}}
{{od}} [[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' A very short [[Wired (magazine)|Wired]] article from 2008 about a government web page that has been removed? The author fails to give any context here or make any conclusion, except that "it's strange". If you are requesting this be added as a bit of trivia, it's clearly [[WP:INDISCRIMINATE]]. If you are requesting this be added because you feel it indicates some type of government mind control conspiracy, it's clearly [[WP:FRINGE]] and subject to [[WP:EXTRAORDINARY]]. Also, bear in mind Wikipedia article text must avoid [[WP:COPYVIO]], so we cannot just paste text of a magazine into an encyclopedia article. (Also, please, stop pasting walls of text here on the Talk page. If you have links that you wish considered as part of a request you may post them, but there is no need to paste text from a link) [[User:LuckyLouie|- LuckyLouie]] ([[User talk:LuckyLouie|talk]]) 14:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 
== Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2023 ==
 
One of the protestors in the image is holding a sign mentioning Havana Syndrome and the text below the image says it's from 2009, however, according to the Wikipedia page on Havana Syndrome, the incidents only goes as far back as 2016 meaning the image could not have been from 2009.
So remove the date or replace it with the correct one, or explain if I'm wrong. [[User:FriedFrenchGuy|FriedFrenchGuy]] ([[User talk:FriedFrenchGuy|talk]]) 17:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:You seem to be correct. The upload page on Commons [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Creating_mass_awareness_against_RNM_based_torture_devices.jpg] gives the 2009 date too. Very odd. And I don't think it is really appropriate to use a photo with identifiable individuals anyway, given that we state that they are promoting conspiracy theories associated with mental illness. I've removed the photo entirely for now. [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 18:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 
== Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2024 ==
 
{{Edit COI|a}}
Please DELETE the following line from this article: California psychiatrist Alan Drucker has identified evidence of [[delusional disorder]]s on many of these websites and other psychologists are divided over whether such sites reinforce mental troubles, or act as a form of group social support.
 
I am Alan Drucker, MD and I request this change for the following reason: The statement is factually untrue - I have not 'identified evidence of delusional disorders on many of these websites'. I have not conducted any clinical research on this topic, and I am not an expert on this topic. As such, I believe it is inappropriate to be cited in Wikipedia from a brief clip from a small, local television news story which was a local human interest story many years ago. [[User:DrSanePalmSprings|DrSanePalmSprings]] ([[User talk:DrSanePalmSprings|talk]]) 16:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
 
*Please provide a [[WP:RS]] reliable source that specifically contradicts [https://web.archive.org/web/20150829083519/http://www.scrippsmedia.com/kmir6/news/179055911.html our cited sources]. You can also contact [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ/Article_subjects#The_information_in_your_article_about_me_is_wrong._How_can_I_get_it_fixed? the foundation directly]. [[User:LuckyLouie|- LuckyLouie]] ([[User talk:LuckyLouie|talk]]) 16:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{Respond|orangeexclamation|Not done for now:}} <!-- Template:ECOI -->per above comment. <span style="border:solid #166DF8 2px;padding:4px;border-radius:0.3rem;">[[User:Encoded|Encoded]]</span>  <span style="border:solid #FFDE24 2px;padding:4px;border-radius:0.3rem">[[User talk:Encoded|Talk 💬]]</span> 00:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::Just looking into this a little further...
::The statement Dr Drucker objects to above is as follows: {{tq|Alan Drucker has identified evidence of delusional disorders on many of these websites}}.
::The source cited quotes Dr Drucker observing that {{tq|"There's no scientific evidence, there's no objective evidence to show that what they believe to be happening is factually true".}}
::And then further saying that {{tq|"Information I found on many of these websites really confirms or is consistent with what I see in delusional disorders," said Dr. Drucker}}.
::To some extent I'm sympathetic with Dr Drucker's position in his post above that if we say "has identified evidence of" then it very strongly implies (or, really, is equivalent to saying) "has conducted and published research in relation to". I think it is more than reasonable for an academic to object to our current wording if he has not conducted or published such research.
::For someone to say that they found information on websites is not the same as conducting and publishing research, and for the current text to imply such is factually untrue and liable to mislead.
::I'd therefore suggest that, at the very least, some re-wording in the current article text may be desirable.
::I'm going to re-open this COI edit request and hopefully we can get input from a broader range of users with a view to developing a consensus. I trust that neither of the above respondents will object and we can see where things go from here. [[User:Axad12|Axad12]] ([[User talk:Axad12|talk]]) 03:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It's fair to say that the 2012 news piece by KMIR is carrying rather too heavy a load. That's the only source we cite naming Drucker, and he's not saying he published scholarly research on the exact topic. The better source for this sort of information is reference number 21 by Sarah Kershaw, [https://web.archive.org/web/20081210082353/https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/fashion/13psych.html?pagewanted=all the 2008 piece by ''The New York Times''], which names multiple researchers. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 05:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Compromise suggestion:
::::Remove {{tq|California psychiatrist Alan Drucker has identified evidence of delusional disorders on many of these websites and other psychologists are divided over whether such sites reinforce mental troubles, or act as a form of group social support.}}
::::Replace with {{tq|It has been suggested that the content of many of these websites may indicate the presence of delusional disorders, although psychologists are divided over whether such sites reinforce mental troubles, or act as a form of group social support.}}
::::So, remove reference to Dr Drucker and replace the potentially rather misleading "Dr Drucker has identified evidence" with the more generalised "It has been suggested that". Also, replace the current source with the source indicated by Binksternet.
::::How does that sound? [[User:Axad12|Axad12]] ([[User talk:Axad12|talk]]) 05:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::We already cite the Kershaw piece. I agree that we can remove Drucker's name and just keep it general. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 06:21, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::We don't know who the [[WP:SPA]] is. They claim to be Drucker, but could be just another account that is active at the moment trying to remove or equivocate criticism of these conspiracy/fringe theories in various articles. [[User:LuckyLouie|&#45; LuckyLouie]] ([[User talk:LuckyLouie|talk]]) 13:25, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::To be honest, I don't think that really makes any difference. Whether Drucker's name is mentioned in the article is neither here nor there, so it might as well be removed. [[User:Axad12|Axad12]] ([[User talk:Axad12|talk]]) 13:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::This article (and others, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Electronic_harassment#Introduction_Violates_WP:MEDRS_and_WP:NPOV a similar effort]) have been vandalized for many years by drive by accounts looking to water down the language or add a loophole in the text that leaves the door open to the possibility that mind control is real. If you must remove Drucker, let's not create wishy washy text please. How about {{tq|Mental health professionals maintain that many of these websites exhibit evidence of delusional disorders, although they are divided over whether such sites reinforce mental troubles, or act as a form of group social support.}} [[User:LuckyLouie|&#45; LuckyLouie]] ([[User talk:LuckyLouie|talk]]) 13:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'd prefer it if it said "may exhibit", but I'm okay with your suggested text. [[User:Axad12|Axad12]] ([[User talk:Axad12|talk]]) 14:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)