Talk:Alma mater: Difference between revisions
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==Redirect== |
==Redirect== |
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Current version of the article is little more than a dictionary definition. I have redirected to [[List of Latin phrases#A]]. If/when someone has enough more to say to turn this into a full stand-alone article, please revert this redirect to the prior version. [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] 21:46, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC) |
Current version of the article is little more than a dictionary definition. I have redirected to [[List of Latin phrases#A]]. If/when someone has enough more to say to turn this into a full stand-alone article, please revert this redirect to the prior version. [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] 21:46, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC) |
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== Current usage == |
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Cleanup recommended. This article is all over the place. In definite need of disambiguation, reorganization. [[User:Jareha|jareha]] 06:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC) |
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:I've disambiguated this article. Would like to know if there's a consensus that cleanup is complete. [[User:Jareha|jareha]] 00:45, 9 November 2005 (UTC) |
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::Removed cleanup tag. [[User:Jareha|jareha]] 22:38, 5 December 2005 (UTC) |
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''"Before its current usage"'', states the article. Should this not indicate that it's (presumably) specific to the US, at least in English usage? See the previous discussion page for commentary from various other likely more worldly-wise than me, but speaking as an Englishwoman I found the term rather perplexing when I first encountered it on Wikipedia and years later I've still yet to encounter it elsewhere. I dare say it may be used within particular social circles (such as the infamously closeted "Oxbridge PPE crowd", to hazard a guess) but it doesn't seem to be used in general; or at least not here. --[[User:Vometia|Vometia]] ([[User talk:Vometia|talk]]) 16:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC) |
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:There seems to be a wide gulf between British and US usage of this term. It's extremely common in the US where it usually means one has graduated from (ie. not a drop-out). Though some may disagree (often drop outs themselves!). In the UK it seems like the term is not used much at all, and when so, its meaning can infer simply any attendance (graduate or not) but I am guessing here. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 16:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC) |
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==latin usage== |
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I was taught that latin often did not use capital letters- should we refer to it as 'alma mater', or am I missing something? :) |
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:The 2 dictionaries I checked (the Oxford American Dictionary and the American Heritage Dictionary) both list both the capitalized and lowercase spellings as correct. According the normal rules for English spelling, it is not a proper noun nor perceived by a normal native speaker as being derived from one, so the preferred spelling would be lowercase. |
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:The conventions of the Latin language are irrelevant. When a word is borrowed into another language, it adopts the conventions that the borrowing language assigns to it, which may be the same as or closer to either the original or the borrowing language. This often corresponds to, but is not necessarily a function of, the degree to which the borrowed word has been nativized. In English, this is usually rule governed, but can vary on a case-by-case basis.[[User:Bostoner|Bostoner]] ([[User talk:Bostoner|talk]]) 01:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC) |
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== Which school had the first use? == |
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== 2007-01-31 Automated pywikipediabot message == |
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In 2023, the article lead was redrafted to claim that university-related usage began with the University of Bologna and its motto "Alma Mater Studiorum ". But sources that show Bologna is the oldest school using the term do not support the claim that the term itself originates with Bologna. Meanwhile, there are plenty of English language sources tracing the earliest use to the 1600/1610 at the University of Cambridge (see 'Etymology'), including all the tertiary sources cited. |
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It's possible that Bologna usage is earlier, but I cannot find a source to verify this. If someone does track one down—perhaps Italian Wikipedia has it?—we should then update the article lead and etymology section to show Bologna's prior use. |
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{{transwikied to Wiktionary}} --[[User:CopyToWiktionaryBot|CopyToWiktionaryBot]] 22:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC) |
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Specifically, it would be helpful to know when Bologna adopted "Alma Mater Studiorum." I can find Italian and English language primary sources dating "Alma Mater Studiorum" to 1888, celebrating Bologna's 800-year anniversary. But the trail disappears before that date, and I don't know of a secondary source that Wikipedia can cite. [[User:Nickknack00|Nickknack00]] ([[User talk:Nickknack00|talk]]) 15:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== Matriculation, from the Latin ??? == |
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== Ufo == |
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I am confused, this page says |
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mother earth [[Special:Contributions/207.62.170.211|207.62.170.211]] ([[User talk:207.62.170.211|talk]]) 23:34, 27 January 2023 (UTC) |
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"The word matriculation is derived from the Latin root word mater." |
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But the "matricualtion" page says |
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"Matriculation, ..., from the Latin matrix" meaning "list" or "register" |
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Are they both right? How? |
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BTW, one of the old meanings of "matrix" appears to be "womb" |
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From the "mater" page |
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māter (genitive mātris); f, third declension |
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At any rate, I'm confused - clarification would be appreiciated :) |
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[[User:Q Science|Q Science]] 18:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== British English == |
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I have never once heard this phrase being used in the UK [[User:Cls14|Cls14]] 23:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC) |
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: The OED has the following definition for Alma mater: |
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:: " A title given by the Romans to several goddesses, especially to Ceres and Cybele, and '''transferred in Eng. to Universities and schools regarded as ‘fostering mothers’ to their alumni.'''" |
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:(emphasis added). I would tend to trust the OED when it comes to British English. The term is commonly used in the second sense in all varieties of English. --[[User:PalaceGuard008|PalaceGuard008]] ([[User_Talk:PalaceGuard008|Talk]]) 12:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::''Alma mater'' is a common expression in British English, used to describe one's school, college, university, or similar place of education.--[[User:Oxonian2006|Oxonian2006]] ([[User talk:Oxonian2006|talk]]) 22:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC) |
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== two universities, one alma mater? == |
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Assume someone went to college at C University and then professional school at P University, business/law/medical/etc. (and assume that both schools are in e.g. the USA). Is C the only "alma mater" because e.g. generally a person has only one mother? (Of course we are merely speaking here of general usage, and any resulting general conclusion would always be subject to exceptions, e.g. where the person declared a greater affinity to P.) The article is basically silent on this question, and other reference sources i looked at left me with the question. Thanks. [[User:Bo99|Bo99]] ([[User talk:Bo99|talk]]) 18:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC) |
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: Your alma mater is where you received your ''first'' undergradate degree. Graduate school/postgrad professional school doesn't count. - Maggie --[[Special:Contributions/74.14.110.185|74.14.110.185]] ([[User talk:74.14.110.185|talk]]) 00:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:: Can someone find a reference to back up Maggie so we can put this important discriminant on the article page. After all, this designation is part of the biography template in common use; users should find this answer in the lead of the article (for efficiency sake).[[User:Rgdboer|Rgdboer]] ([[User talk:Rgdboer|talk]]) 00:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I think Maggie is being rather silly. I don't know what she means by, 'Graduate school/postgrad professional school doesn't count.' I am happy to speak of my several ''almae matres''.--[[User:Oxonian2006|Oxonian2006]] ([[User talk:Oxonian2006|talk]]) 22:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC) |
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::::I think this issue is unclear.... maybe because there is no official opinion on it. What about one who attended a college/university, but earned no degrees? Additionally the University of Bologna is credited for he phrase "alma mater." However, the wikipedia article for the University of Bologna says the university did not adopt the phrase "Alma Mater Studiorum" until 2000. Obviously, this term has existed longer than 8 years. [[User:Aigiqinf|James]] ([[User talk:Aigiqinf|talk]]) 01:21, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Sourcing lyrics == |
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Is it permissible to use well-known lyrics websites as a reference for song lyrics? I am particularly thinking of the section in this article that mentions Chuck Berry's use of the phrase in his song "My Ding-a-Ling". He also uses it in his song "Oh Baby Doll", which was a minor hit in 1957. I'd like to add this information, but how can I source it? As most lyrics websites rely on user- or bot-generated content, how reliable are they? [[User:Estesark|Estesark]] ([[User talk:Estesark|talk]]) 09:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC) |
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:Unless the phrase is particulary slurred the fact that it appears can be sourced using primary sources. Ie. use the song as the source. Take care with due weight and stuff like that though. [[User:Taemyr|Taemyr]] ([[User talk:Taemyr|talk]]) 11:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC) |
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== removing 'In Popular Music' section == |
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Let's be honest, the '[[Alma_mater#In_popular_music|In Popular Music]]' of this article is [[Wikipedia:Trivia_sections|trivia]]. It's not an exhaustive list of references, and it's not intended to be - it certainly is never destined to become one, and it's arguable whether that goal is even beneficial to this article (beyond a 'see also' link). My instinct is to just get rid of it - [[Wikipedia:Handling_trivia#Practical_steps|SOP]] suggests integrating relevant facts into the article itself. Are there any of the items in this section that are worth keeping? Some of them (I'm looking at '[[Immortal_Technique|Immortal Technique's]]' lyrics here in particular) are totally inane and inconsequential. |
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Anyone see anything worthwhile about this section? |
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MattLohkamp 09:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Matt.lohkamp|Matt.lohkamp]] ([[User talk:Matt.lohkamp|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt.lohkamp|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Alright, I'll remove it, let's discuss if anyone objects. - [[User:Matt.lohkamp|matt lohkamp]] 02:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC) |
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==As a song?== |
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I don't believe "alma mater" ever refers to a song. Not only is "solid evidence" lacking, even the webpage referred to doesn't mention "alma mater". I'm deleting the whole section. [[User:Unfree|Unfree]] ([[User talk:Unfree|talk]]) 01:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 13:43, 12 September 2024
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Redirect
[edit]Current version of the article is little more than a dictionary definition. I have redirected to List of Latin phrases#A. If/when someone has enough more to say to turn this into a full stand-alone article, please revert this redirect to the prior version. Rossami 21:46, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Current usage
[edit]"Before its current usage", states the article. Should this not indicate that it's (presumably) specific to the US, at least in English usage? See the previous discussion page for commentary from various other likely more worldly-wise than me, but speaking as an Englishwoman I found the term rather perplexing when I first encountered it on Wikipedia and years later I've still yet to encounter it elsewhere. I dare say it may be used within particular social circles (such as the infamously closeted "Oxbridge PPE crowd", to hazard a guess) but it doesn't seem to be used in general; or at least not here. --Vometia (talk) 16:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
- There seems to be a wide gulf between British and US usage of this term. It's extremely common in the US where it usually means one has graduated from (ie. not a drop-out). Though some may disagree (often drop outs themselves!). In the UK it seems like the term is not used much at all, and when so, its meaning can infer simply any attendance (graduate or not) but I am guessing here. -- GreenC 16:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
Which school had the first use?
[edit]In 2023, the article lead was redrafted to claim that university-related usage began with the University of Bologna and its motto "Alma Mater Studiorum ". But sources that show Bologna is the oldest school using the term do not support the claim that the term itself originates with Bologna. Meanwhile, there are plenty of English language sources tracing the earliest use to the 1600/1610 at the University of Cambridge (see 'Etymology'), including all the tertiary sources cited.
It's possible that Bologna usage is earlier, but I cannot find a source to verify this. If someone does track one down—perhaps Italian Wikipedia has it?—we should then update the article lead and etymology section to show Bologna's prior use.
Specifically, it would be helpful to know when Bologna adopted "Alma Mater Studiorum." I can find Italian and English language primary sources dating "Alma Mater Studiorum" to 1888, celebrating Bologna's 800-year anniversary. But the trail disappears before that date, and I don't know of a secondary source that Wikipedia can cite. Nickknack00 (talk) 15:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Ufo
[edit]mother earth 207.62.170.211 (talk) 23:34, 27 January 2023 (UTC)