Talk:Anthropogenic global warming

This article was nominated for deletion on 1 August 2006. The result of the discussion was redirect to global warming.

REDIRECT Talk:Attribution of recent climate change

Change of redirect: why?

I don't see any discussion for this change [1]. It looks wrong to me William M. Connolley (talk) 17:18, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Especially in light of the AFD result, which I've just noticed... William M. Connolley (talk) 17:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That AFD discussion was from 4 years ago. The attribution redirect deals very clearly with the "anthropogenic" aspect of AGW, and you shouldn't simply revert "per talk", when there was no discussion here supporting your revert. Thus, as I agree with the new redirect, and think it's much more specific and accurate, I'm replacing it. Please don't revert it without consensus. Scott aka UnitAnode 13:34, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that's how it works - specifically, there was a long standing target for this redirect - one I agree with. If people are wondering "what is anthropogenic global warming," the article that best answers that question is our article on "global warming," not our article on "what causes global warming." Thus, I have restored the four year status quo - find consensus on this talk page before moving from the status quo. Hipocrite (talk) 13:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One (the attribution article) deals with the "anthropogenic" aspect. The other (GW) doesn't touch that side of it. This is beyond the pale, Hipocrite. Stop citing "4 years of status quo" as a reason for redirecting it to GW. I don't even think the attribution article existed back then. Now it does, and it's a MUCH better redirect for AGW. Scott aka UnitAnode 13:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's a better redirect for the "Anthropogenic" part, sure. However, people coming to this article have typed in "anthropogenic global warming." They should be directed to our article about "the increase in the average temperature of Earth's near-surface air and oceans since the mid-20th century and its projected continuation," which is what "anthropogenic global warming" is. Hipocrite (talk) 13:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious? You really think that people who know enough to type "anthropogenic" in front of "global warming" are simply wanting to learn more about global warming?!? That seems patently absurd, as typing that qualifier makes it clear they are interested in the attribution of said phenomena. Scott aka UnitAnode 13:58, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

" Yes. They saw someone write it somewhere, and so they wikipediaed it. Hipocrite (talk) 14:00, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

AGW is just a synonym for GW. The attribution article is about something entirely different; in fact, it is about... yes, you guessed it: attribution. It isn't all that good, and definitely needs work. But it isn't the correct target for this redirect William M. Connolley (talk) 13:55, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's categorically not. There are many people who acknowledge that global warming is occurring, but who would vigorously debate the "anthropogenic" aspect of it. Let's not pretend otherwise here. Scott aka UnitAnode 13:58, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very fringe view you've expressed - I believe you are providing undue weight to the fringe belief that global warming is not being caused by human activity. Hipocrite (talk) 14:00, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Absurd. The view that the amount of influence man has over GW is debatable isn't "fringey" in the least. And I didn't even express a view on it. I simply made the comment that people who know enough to type in "anthropogenic" would seem to be looking for material on attribution not on general global warming. Please stop with the absurd accusations. Scott aka UnitAnode 14:02, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I contend that the view man is not causing global warming is fringe. You state this is "absurd." Certainly, then, you can provide peer-reviewed review articles in reputable and on-topic journals that contend that man is not causing global warming, and at least one major scientific body that doubts that man is causing global warming. Hipocrite (talk) 14:05, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hipocrite and WMC are correct - most of the time AGW is used as a synonym for GW by people, often (but by no means always) as a means of indicating their doubts about some aspect of it. For all practical purposes, AGW is GW. Guettarda (talk) 14:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WMC is right that Attribution of recent climate change needs a lot of work, but even it doesn't discuss the question manmade/not manmade. And the reason is clear - there is no realistic discussion to be had on that subject that could be based on recent published science. You can't have an article on an unrealistic scientific debate that isn't discussed in the mainstream scientific literature. UnitAnode is right to say that very few people are going to type the full name of this redirect, so very few people are going to see it. AGW is a disambiguation page. Non-event; non-discussion; there's nothing to be done here. Certainly redirect the page's few visitors to our flagship FA coverage, not to some obscure page that needs work. In the meantime, I have added Attribution of recent climate change to my watchlist to try and help get it into shape. --Nigelj (talk) 14:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are many people who acknowledge that global warming is occurring, but who would vigorously debate the "anthropogenic" aspect of it. - ah, *now* I understand you. But this isn't the place to re-fight the global warming wars. See the current state of global warming William M. Connolley (talk) 15:04, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You need to desist with this type of innuendo immediately. While my views aren't relevant, here they are, so that you won't have any further need to try to "understand" me: 1) I believe that global warming is occurring; 2) I believe that human activity is a primary cause of said warming; 3) I believe that there are many good ideas under discussion as to what to do about it; 4) I believe that the articles covering the issue on Wikipedia are not very balanced, and downplay to a great extent the political and scientific debate that is still happening. If I were a betting man, I'd say that you and the other "pro-AGW" editors would agree unequivocally with #1-3, but that you write me off as incorrigible because of #4. Whatever the case, the antagonistic stance that you and several of your WikiFriends have taken on-Wiki, has greatly polarized the discussion, and very much turned off many like me, who are rather predisposed to agree with you on the underlying scientific issues. Scottaka UnitAnode 19:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
We don't need to know your beliefs. Please stick to discussing the articles and not the editors, including yourself. --Nigelj (talk) 19:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not the one you need to be talking to here, Nigel. Connolley made the snarky comment, "Ah, now I understand you" above, which was clear innuendo that I myself held beliefs which I do not hold. I categorically reject such nonsense, and I consider your little warning as not much better than Connolley's innuendo. So, next time you feel the need to lecture me, save it. Scott aka UnitAnode 19:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First, I should clarify that I am Tony Sidaway editing from a mobile telephone. Secondly, I'm not persuaded by the notion that we should create an artificial dichotomy. The scientific consensus is that global warming is almost certainly caused by human activities including industry and land use. I think the proposal to change the redirect to point to the attribution article needs better arguments than any offered so far. Tasty monster 20:01, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After the problems we've seen in the last few months, this appeal to the "scientific consensus" is even less persuasive than it used to be. If there'd been more concentration on explaining the real state of knowledge and less on insisting it was all settled, then some of this might not have happened. MalcolmMcDonald (talk) 22:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is all settled. It doesn't matter if 55% of Holland is below MHWS or 60% of it is 'liable to flooding': Spring is still coming earlier, the insects are migrating polewards, and US citizens are still pumping CO2 into the atmosphere faster than ever before. So what is your point re this article/redirect? --Nigelj (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Un-redirected again, sigh

More fiddling, no discussion. I wonder why? William M. Connolley (talk) 12:03, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The number of articles and topics in this area has expanded since this redirect was originally setup. Allowing the user a choice of where to go within this topic area would seem appropriate. Do you object to allowing the user to decide for themselves where they want to go? Do you feel the need to control what the user sees? --93.96.70.94 (talk) 20:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]