INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS

Q1
So our class boys is cultural management. So we're fine arts majors. And the whole class about
cultural management, we have to like engage with certain persons of interest and ask them
questions about that relate to the subject. So our first question. Did you teach? Sir John Marpo.
I think he's the director of of the Culture and Arts Fcil, Tito Salus. Okay. So how do you balance
creative freedom with funding or institututional expectations? With great hope and madness.
Okay. Yeah. Because they're very difficult to combine.. But it's possible. It's been done.. It's
been done. I think the main thing is that you're sure about what you're trying to sell. Mm. You
know, if you're sure what you trying to sell, you're more confident in the sales process. Just take
of course I saidians. But that's all, you, artificial and, you know, media and so on. And he was
probably convinced also because of Val. Val was a former member, Val Val V, who is the chair of
the architecture department of the College of Engineering. He used to be a member. Okay. And
just like my daughter, they were partners that initial group the first time that we were went
abroad 35 years now, and we went abroad about six or seven years after I founded the group.
So yeah, so until finally, it was persuaded that it was something that might be good for the
campus. But I was helped by people who already know me and my work. There's something.
then later on you know Yes. In other words, because this is a pioneeeeering project, even
somebody with vast experience in culture like Joe Man Abrio, you know, had to be persuaded
that you are worthwhile as you could do by because it's an investment also for the university..
Round for transportation, housing, food, and the rest of the area. So it's not a question of
balanceancing, really, you don't balance. If there's a will, you find out you find a way to getting it
done. For example, I had been writing not only to Siiman, but to all sorts of cultural leaders in
Visayas, especially in Central Visayas, especially those provinces who haven't visited. We have
been to 50 provinces. Wow. 32 provinces to go 82 provinces,. Yeah. And even for experts like
that, they know me by reputation, the cost of bringing us is something else, in a transportation
for 15 to 20 people, and the food, and all the arrangements. Even if our services in place in the
locale in Siu is mostly free. I see. Just like here, I taught the Ma. I told. Well, typically, where we
are based, our ordorary is anywhere from nothing to 150,000 per. So he pick it up from there.
Okay. And I wasn't even expecting. I knew that I know the cause. I was not expecting any kind
of aari at all, but it was kind enough to provide. I think that that gives us some sort of focus.
Myself and my classmates, so we're graduate graduating students, and we're thinking about the
future of our our field. No, there is a future. Are you're practitioners, right? Yes. There is really a
future, but you will not realise it, but it's not a future that will be offered to, you have to look for it.
Exactly. Whether you do it as a as a standalone artist or somebody who will connect with an
institution that with the benefit talent before you go solo, that's something you have to explore.
That's part of the adventure of of graduation. Don't despair. I graduated in 1972. I should have
graduated four years earlier. the [Link] performance. I university, 1962, I was quite 15 years old
I And even then, even then, there were opportunities, but it was not enough to sustain you,
especially when you have a family and kids and children. So I thought of the university as a
base. able to do what I want to do. Rather, what is the word? Maybe. What is the word I'm
looking for?. So there's a bit of something negativeity there. I enjoy teaching as much as
performing because teaching is like performing. Before I Captic O. That's how I defined it. That's
why it worked for me. Yeah, that makes sense. I realised, you.. Yeah, I enjoy I enjoy teaching. I
enjoy conversations like this. Yeah. And, uh.. I've been able to be sustain by that. To be sure in
the early 70s when I started, I would not have been able toustain myself as a performing artist..
In the first place, to do that, you have to specialise as a performing artist, so that my name isicul
is the generalist, I do everything. I did everything, choreography, choreography, music, for the
most part. The others were done by the kids, and I allowed them to make changes when they
leave, even something at I compose. Most of what you so say created by me. Music, dance,
theatre, the whole art costume. Any if you are a journalist like that.. You're not the priority, but
they look for somebody, but they look for a director, they look for a director, the other director,
not the director whoosers and.. In other words, being a generalist was a disadvantage in that
sense. M an advantage. I like to think that I did all of the things that I did well. But that's me.
That's not how they saw me. Even the world, the theatre world. In Philip In Pa. In Philippine
Educational Theatater Association. They know me as a musician.. In the European Cirorus,
although I was a singer there for a while, they know me as a choreographer because I
choreograpographed for two or three dozen choirs. And I'm a speech and drama major.
Therefore, those who were my classmates who were in the university with me in the same
generation, know me as a theatre person. Who are you really, Ed? For most many people, they
were asking that kind of question. I'm telling you this because some one or two of you may be a
generalist one or two maybe a particularist. I don't know. Look for your advantage, and it's up to
you how to sell yourselves. I feel like I relate with that sir. I'm the current governor of our college
performing in visual arts. So I'm heading our student council and even if I'm not the best at being
an illustrator, I feel like my strength is in connecting with people and getting mobilising people
and and I want the strength. They come in, learning skills, artistic skills. But look, by the doing,
what you're manage getting along with people, Management. This is is nothing to sneeze at, this
kind of management. From my point of view, you bring 20 people all over the world and on time,
based on your be to 25 countries or over the world, transportation, arrangement, you,
accommodation, a show, all the rest of it. That's major organising. what you doing. Yeah,
learning to deal with different attitudes. That's right. Yeah, but the strictly organisation. Never
mind the personalities, which aggravates these things sometimes.. Yeah. Yeah.

Q2
Okay. I have another question, sir. So I think we have a total of six questions. Feel free to keep it
as shorter as long as you the answers, sir. It's really long. Yeah.. We' used to it nan. How does
contragape ensure respectful representation of indigenous traditions? Ultimately, it's the culture
of the people who made the judgement. How could you have to find 36 years?. That's the
message. You survived for six years. That's.'s a long time. 50 provinces, and this is the 51st.
and the 51st Province. 25 countries, 15 tours. Wow. If you're not legitimate somehow, if you're
not presenting something interesting, people look at what you do in very different places. I call in
look at sickness in Filipinoatureilipino or somebody informed like yourselves about culture and
about academic life. We look at this show in a different way. But basically, is it entertaining, you
know what? kind of basic, for children, that would be the thing. It's entertaining. So, how could
you survive 36 years if you are not worthwhile one more on the other to the oceans, to all kinds
of ogances? Yes. So what I'm saying is your legitimacy, you know what you want to do, but
ultimately, your legitim. is the acceptance of the people of what you do. Because let's they're the
final judges, I don't know, you know Guo fromston. There are times that Van Go, for example,
never saw the building in his lifetime. It was only about a generation afterwards now. 25 million.
And that's the visual arts. Music in the early years of atolal music, H. Rky 19 In Paris alone, very
sophisticated audience, because there were so many new things in the orchestration, orchestra.
They rejected it now. Now, as I speak, classic. Anyway, there might be some similar instances in
the visual arts and all the other arts. period.. Yeah, another thing, you know that our periods are
at least in restaurant artics is very well studied.. A period in sign such that there is a mindset,
there is a feeling, there's a psychist. There's a kind of psychology that surrounds that particular
period. Yes. 17. Anyway, they identify it as romantic. Yeah. But the music, it came almost
century after. How is that possible? Has been, you know? If the same mood, the same
philosophical background in the art form can identify itself a romantic, how is it possible in some
arts say, I'm ahead of the others in this instance little German bagu music? And in theatre, it
even came much later, much later., In other words, the art.. seems sometimes, you know, in our
visual arts, same sensibility and the expressions are expressions are So, with that in mind, I had
to, because of my own experience as a performing artist, I had a feeling that it would not be
easy to find acceptability at what I was doing. And that's my feeling from the very beginning.,
Okay? Mm hmm. And.. In other words, there are things that you desperately want to
communicate as an artist.. Is this something that makes sense to the audience? If you're a
writer, the reading audience, if you're performing artist, the theatre audience? Does that make
sense to them? Is it worthwhile to them, one way or the other?. And different origces have a
different impact, and a different impression, because I was telling Yuku Giinian entertainment.
For people like you, you'll probably be reading more to what we're doing than others, because of
your own background. there is a common denominator of acceptability and worth or
worthwhileeness

Q3
You touched on the, like the topic of organisation earlier, and it relates to this next question.
What is the role of the artistic director beyond musical direction? Yeah. The role of the artistic
director is the role of any lead leader in any organisation. Given the terms of reference in what
you're doing. you know the of cordation? Not your. You know you're wrong. Musical director
choir. Get the orchestra. It's all written, interpreted. Well, it's the same if you're a theatre director.
There's a script, but the look of the stage will be different. And there's of course, your
interpretation of the acting and so on. But the look of the stage, is the stage design, the musical
background. So it all depends on the kind of art formula or organisation you're leading. Mm
hmm Pr this. Hmm? And, um. So these are already, like chose questions, we're, like, the most
appropriate or the most interesting questions. visual art? Yes, visual words.. Individual arts,
there are visual arts., you could be a leader of a school or a style or something like that that is a
possibility. Or just somebody to put together artists. So it's management. Yeah. Ind leadership
as a st a musical director was confined was clearly defined. Yeah. I think it depends on the
scope as well, because in visual art, it's like, oh, we have the curator for the gallery or you want
to establish an artist collective and.. Well, you know better than this. Yeah.

Q4
For our next question, how do schools and communities factor into your programming? Very
important, our main target projects of the children. Mm hmm. vess They're the ones who have
been captive to colonisation. Many of them haven't gotten away from it yet. Yeah,'s. Jo Siima. At
least individual arts are experimentations on Filippinizing. Mm. Okay? Lature or what Desi is
doing in theatre. Look at music. There's probably one or two horse studying music that's not
Western, but's in this for. D. Do you call it a School of music or college music here? It's the
College of Performing in Visual Arts. Fine. Certainly, the musical portion is very highly regarded,
it has been known for several generations in the Philippines. Yes. for Western Maybe I should
mention that

Q5
So we have two more questions that and I will leave you to finish your. No, I like my name with
the questions you stay. Stay until the end. Let's talk about all about. other things you want to be
on the top.. So our next question is, how do cultural policies affect your word? What? How do
cultural policies affect your work? Depends what the cultural parises are. What are the cultural
prices of Sian University? It's a very big question. What cultural policies are they' not aware? I
think, you have to define terms. Because I think. was interaction with government, cultural
agencies and Oh, like NCA. The policy is very general. You have to particularise. Policy is just
management, direction, and purpose.. That's true. Is there anything that, like, are there any
bodicies like censor can work involving like censorship. Yeah. It's the freest community in the
Philippippines maybe in the world. It's a given. It's a given. That is why within the university, it's
really a marketplace of ideas in the traditional sense. And we, in the faculty, nourish this variety
of thinking. That's why we debate all the time. I mean, we friend's just one That's just one,
political view or scheme or view of the world. many of them. But no less se. the public is U. 2%
from the population. But they have noisy, therefore theyract attention, just like a baby when a
baby cries.. You have to respond. One of our features, Akit I's finers department, she's from UC
number. It's very, very supportive of us joining Ali., especially the T. Then again, if you're talking
about policy, how really the Siman universe look at its role used to be the nation as a whole? Let
me tell you about the UP. I should we out about the Sian University. So question, one of the
finest universes in the family. Probably one of the top dozen or so.. Which, in a sense, the d
going already, because at one time it was the University of the Viss. Yeah, that's true.s true. It
was the University of Misss, it was the University in in Lu. And I think at the name of the was a
block and it was the university, in the. In fact, there was a dual meet between Siiman and Diman
that we go to be cut over here and in the direction. It was very interesting. There is why a lot of
the faculty and vice versa. My father in law taught literature here. Oh, that's. He got the full ride
and he studied the State University of Iron's C workshop, Med Deilo and asked the lgy
departmentartment, Ricaro deme. Okay. My brother inlaw studied and then took his masters in
fine arts. He was a visual artist, painter. Period. There are certain expectations about the
university. By definition, it is a place there are two things classical about the university. It is a
place of as much learning as it is possible to put together in one place. Number two, because of
that learning, it is a place where the individual can find themselves. Roman parents knewing.
priorities after four years. The university is not a factory for employ. The classical purpose of the
university is to get exposure as much knowledge as possible so that the individual gets to know
himself in the deepest way. Now, the sil come from the same. But in the case of UP, in the
1930s, the UP was very active in the independence movement. It defined itself as somebody
that can speak for the people. Nobody told us to do that. The students on the community
decided that family stop. They just decided that, and they were very active against sc.O
everyone, everyone else. In other words, you saw itself in the 30s. Bore the 30s, Yuki saw itself
as a university, the way the universities are seen in the United States and in Europe, you know,
a place of learning, etcera. But in this instance, Yuki saw itself as a critique of government in the
conscience of the nation. That's not part of your usual definition of the university, not usually.
Policy. return on, but when it comes to government, p professor says this and that the other
econics professor. This artic is not about the other. Soon. when we celebrate, I went to the
president I said, you know, 2008, we become self congratulatory. 198 Comm F. Self
congratatory. All the great things, number of presidents graduated from UP, a number of you
know, speaking orices, Congress, leaders in the profession, etcet.. National Artist, I think
there'sini. UP graduates. Okay. But you took on the conscience, not just the leadership, but the
conscience. If you were such a good leader, how come 80% of the population of the N which
you purport to love deeply can hardly in touch a day. leadership. professional leader leaders
very confin, very success in want to take out of mine. But when you look at the scheme because
in the, you assign yourself as a conscious of the nation. 80% are 80% of the population. You
can say the same thing of cinema. How are you applying the gospel the social gospel, in this
institution? In this originally Presbyterian institution, which is liberal in the way it's being run, but
still, inspired by the gospel, what are you doing about it? You students. That may not be stated,
but it's implied by the fact that it was founded as a Protant institution, by Protestants, I did It
reallyly defines itself as I process. talk about policing. As you' the real here, the president, the
board of trustees, you don't teach teachers, it's not. It doesn't matter. You've got institutional
values, including the fact that one of your purposes, as alleg an instrop institution, is to the
social. that's, what's doing about? What we alone the nation. So find out if what you're doing
here is consistent with the highest values of the first gospel. What may be, because there could
be many interpretations. true Pness. You can see the same of the otheros I grand for. others,
Leaders, usually coming from the high classes who are deserving their own class, or others and
others happen to be 80% DME. the last question? On the other hand, in your case, as in the
case of your settlement, you are assigning too much in the responsibility to just one university.
That don't make any claim being conscious of the nation. That's true. You said that on yourself,
I'm talking about youly said that ofsel. As Presbyterian institution, you took upon yourself to
make this a university that can ser the people mainly to the social gospel and the rest of the
gust talk about this charity.. It may not be clearly stated. In fact, you should state it more clearly.
Something's happening in the How does that apply to the social gr as we understand it?
Something happening in the bar? How is that applying? And you come in as a critic, or I said
defender of one or the other, as the case may be. That is the role of the university. And you
don't talk about it in that way. It depends in a cult. university. talk about it all the time. Not this
issue, taking strong cons. service service service.. Don't forget to serve.. Don't forget to serve
and take responsibility for the past that 80% of the Filipino nations are poor, eating only to
detectors not responsibility and do something about it. How? Well, you can. Does it mean doing
it as an individual? Does it mean excelling in whatever field you happen to be in? Does it mean
question the social order and, you know, coming from forward Nobody talks about the social
order, we just accept the system of government and everything else by itself. It's capitalistic. If
you ask me, we could use more socialism. Yeah. Next question. Okay, that's a good day.

Q6
Our last question nalang sir. What institutional support has been the most helpful or the most
limiting?

Let me talk about my own experience in KONTRA-GAPI. From the very beginning, the teachers
in my department, the students in my department, my college dean, and the university as a
whole, thought that what I was doing was a good thing. Even just the idea of a band focusing on
Lumad(?) and Katutubo as opposed to Western traditions, even that alone. Because the deeper
meaning even hindi pa man nila alam eh. That's even when I tried to explain what I was trying to
do. I thought, "Support everywhere…I don't know if I would have set up KONTRA-GAPI if it were
in another university.”

Look at Silliman…sinasabi ko sainyo kanina eh. How can the most forward one or the most
forward looking academic institutions in the Philippines not have at least one non-Western type
musical ensemble? Music lang yan ha.. How is that possible? So, the mindset is still colonial,
because you don't get away from the Western confinement.

Trans: thats why its called KONTRA-GAPI bc its kontra sa mga api

So this art itself is subversing. Our playing - have you watched us yet or not?.. So the rebellious
nature of UP is applied in this instance. Subversive ka eh, the norm is western art, western
music, western everything, Western thinking. Precisely what you say is I challenge that. That's
not necessarily true. That's not necessarily authentic Filipino, that’s not necessarily profound.
That does not necessarily give us a sense of our truest, deepest self. How can you, when
Western music doesn't make you look that I want an association with Southeast Asia? Our
Astronesian past, of five to 5 to 6,000 years in our negrito past 15, 20,000 years, that's what
KONTRA-GAPI is trying to do, to make you aware of that part of our history that has been
submerged ultimately because of colonisation. That's subversive.

I wonder how we're gonna have this discussion with the music majors and we have a
performance on Sunday with the San Francisco Choir.. All of that. Yeah. When was the last time
you had a concert from Thailand here? Not in a while. Look, I know you do have from time to
time. There are individuals who doing that preced(?) Adamo. I know you know, I've heard
people. Elmo Maki, who ended up teaching in UP, a tenor, but he was still young and therefore
even in his compositions Iddemdem Malida, for example, a choral composition. The root of it is
Tinguian, Abra. One of the best Philippine records, just that one song. Things like that, being a
few and far in between hindi individual lang. It's not something institutional. In contrast, the
College of Music in UP has an asian studies program. Let's say there is room for Korean,
Chinese, Indian, and all sorts of other music than Western music.

So, very supportive, it's the only college of music in the Philippines, I know. UST doesn't even
have an Asian music program. UST is even older than the UP college of music. In fact…

Q7
So our last question, how does innovation help keep the organisation relevant? Innovation
means you respond to what's happening in society in ways that that response can be
communicated through your art. Art is just communication. That's all it is, really. How effective
does it communicate? But I have to tell you this.

Do you have a social media manager? Social media manager? KONTRA-GAPI? No, not in the
sense that you mean it. We don’t.

Let me tell you this. In the visual arts, you are a painter, the visual arts. It's largely individual.
Yes. The individual pours himself to a canvas. Right? In a sense all arts are like that. A little of a
person, a poet, pours himself to the words. An architect pours himself to the forms that
represent something grand or this and that. The visual arts are different.. Because in the visual
art, no, I'm sorry, the performing arts, let alone music, because music is principally without the
words in which music and literature combine, in song, music is abstract. Okay. And therefore,
sounds, abstract sounds. but abstract doesn't mean it doesn’t have meaning, you hear the
sounds, but you feel something. Yeah. Just like when you look at an abstract painting, you don't
know what it means. The question is not, what is it? The question is, how does it make you feel?
That is the question you answer with Abstract art. Now it's important to ask the right question.
Okay, but in performing arts, especially in dance, what is your medium, the human body? Acting
the same thing. Yeah. These are the art forms where you are compelled to bathe your soul, to
succeed in your heart, physically. If you don't, you fail as an art is - simple. That is the
expectation, and that is why your teachers here study 100-200 hours to play two minutes to
reach a certain kind of excellence, if not perfection. That's good. Can you imagine all that work
for two minutes, and you bare yourself and you hope… You are interpreters of somebody else's
creations in (..?) the score.

But let's make them together, because in the end, you have to judge them by performance.
Whether you alter the performance yourself. Meaning to say, if you are a pianist, that you wrote
the piece itself, or if somebody else in Schuman or Chopin, etc, that you interpret. The fact that
when you are in front of that audience, it's a bathing of yourself, of your soul. Because anything
less will not succeed. That’s the delicacy, visual arts of course, there are challenges also. There
is depth and profundity and all the rest of that, but you don't have to do it in front of an audience.
After the fact nalang, you just hope [trans: while you sleep someone will buy what you made.
That’s the impact of performing arts, the immediacy of it.] Otherwise, and you might think, I tell
this to everybody, because people just take it for granted. They don’t realise that's exactly what
you're doing. And you don't succeed unless you bare yourself in your authenticity as a
communicator. Anything less is pretense, you might as well do something else.

[cont.]

How does innovation help keep the organisation relevant? How would you define relevance?
No, quite simply relevance is how an act or an intention serves the community at a given time.
Cogency, at a given time. It can be a write up. It can be a painting, it can be anything else.. So
the question is, how, well, if you're an artist, you're sensitive. These are the things going on.
How can you communicate the truth of these things that are going on? in a way that you can do
best? That's ‘relevance’. Provided, you are exposing the truth. That's important for something
that's most useful for the community. Whatever that may be, people may not find what you're
doing acceptable at a particular time, but if you feel that's the truth, so be it and you stand by the
truth, by your conviction on what the truth happens to be at that particular moment. And so you
did get this.

So as an artist, you act according to that perception of the things that are going around. I don’t
think an artist can act any other way, because by definition, an artist tries to project his or her
notion of the world around him, with the hope that whatever he's doing as art, it's worthwhile to
the audience, the reading audience, viewing audience, the film showing audience etc.