Significant visual and comfort compromises make last year's Quest 3 a better VR investment.
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Review: Meta Quest 3S is cheaper in both senses of the word
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Meta, raising the bar in disappointing vision and execution for their vaunted VR future, though they don't really seem to be pushing the whole "Metafarce" vision that much these days anyways
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Does this mean that the Quest 2 will lose access to the current existing library? Or that you just can't access new titles?
If the former is true, who the hell would buy one of these things?
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I feel like approaching VR's adoption as "cost of device" as the problem is the wrong approach ...
People want super fun activities they can do and as far as i can tell most non VR enthusiasts who have tired it has found that "fun, but only for a while".
No lowering the bar of cost entry makes something "fun, but only for a while" any better.
Not that I think Carmack or any of the talking heads in the VR world have all that better ideas that will increase adoption.
People want super fun activities they can do and as far as i can tell most non VR enthusiasts who have tired it has found that "fun, but only for a while".
No lowering the bar of cost entry makes something "fun, but only for a while" any better.
Not that I think Carmack or any of the talking heads in the VR world have all that better ideas that will increase adoption.
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If you're trying to decide between a 3S and a 3, it's pretty much a no brainer to go for the 3. The 3S is basically "good enough to be usable with a ton of minor to moderate pain points" whereas the 3 is "a complete good quality experience that has few downsides".
Whatever you end up buying, Meta or otherwise, make sure you have a rigid/semi rigid strap, it will vastly improve comfort.
Whatever you end up buying, Meta or otherwise, make sure you have a rigid/semi rigid strap, it will vastly improve comfort.
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Well, it feels like barring several major technical advances we are at a plateau for VR. It’s fun and useful in a few niche cases, and that’s it.
I don’t see how these limited cases can support the kind of massive investment it will take to get to the full time glasses thin VR people dream about (if that is even physically possible).
I don’t see how these limited cases can support the kind of massive investment it will take to get to the full time glasses thin VR people dream about (if that is even physically possible).
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Is there anybody buying these things these days (VR headsets that is), that isn't an enthusiast to some degree who would prefer higher quality? Seems like the latest fad/enthusiasm for them has faded again.
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It's unfortunate and certainly a downside, you've got a limited number of years with these as a usable product, not such a big issue with the rapid improvement in the market. Also the issue can be mitigated by using PCVR. There is currently no standalone headset with guaranteed perpetual support of existing titles.
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The library of content for VR is constantly growing. There are issues though, VR games tend to be shorter (10-20 hours) when compared to flat games which tend to be closer to 60-120 hours. This is probably because of the smaller uptake for VR games, it reduces the development budget for VR games, if you can only realistically expect a few million dollars in sales tops, then you don't have the ability to produce a 60-120 hour games.
This will change with time, but it's a slow process. There are now several really good single player games in the Meta store. But we are still at a point where the best value games are those that have a lot of replay value, like beatsaber, superhot and multiplayer games.
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The Quest 3 hasn’t managed to spark the same excitement as the Quest 2 for a variety of reasons.
The price is definitely one of those reasons. Which would make sense why Meta wanted to put out a cheaper version.
The problem is that price isn’t the only factor. The Quest 2 offered something new and exciting for the pandemic era and at a price people could afford. Now that the fad is over, there’s not much that the Quest 3 or 3S is offering to draw people in.
AR experiences haven’t proven to hold interest and there aren’t many games or experiences getting hype from the socials.
So the 3S may get a few people to buy in where their biggest gripe was price, but that could also lead to disappointment and future lost customers if the hardware and software doesn’t show off what makes it better than the Quest 2.
The dedicated VR fans aren’t likely to buy a Quest 3S unless money really is an issue and it’s the best they can afford.
The price is definitely one of those reasons. Which would make sense why Meta wanted to put out a cheaper version.
The problem is that price isn’t the only factor. The Quest 2 offered something new and exciting for the pandemic era and at a price people could afford. Now that the fad is over, there’s not much that the Quest 3 or 3S is offering to draw people in.
AR experiences haven’t proven to hold interest and there aren’t many games or experiences getting hype from the socials.
So the 3S may get a few people to buy in where their biggest gripe was price, but that could also lead to disappointment and future lost customers if the hardware and software doesn’t show off what makes it better than the Quest 2.
The dedicated VR fans aren’t likely to buy a Quest 3S unless money really is an issue and it’s the best they can afford.
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There's no reason to believe that it isn't physically possible, the latest prototype that Meta demoed to places like Tested is already well on the road to that vision.
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That is largely because most AR apps have had limited access to information about the environment, pretty much just a simple relatively low resolution mesh of the environment. Meta has only just started the process of making a live camera feed available.
The biggest issue with the Quest 2 and 3S is the lens system, positioning the headset correctly is critical to having a non mediocre experience, and doing that is non trivial for new users.
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Strikes me that the 3S is intended to replace the 2 as the entry level system for people who don't currently own a Quest. The 3 was supposed to be the upgrade for existing Quest owners - but that seems to have flopped somewhat. And the Pro was for... nobody in particular. If Facebook is positioning the 3S to try and capture existing owners who won't upgrade to a 3 or pro, then they are likely about to have another flop on their hands.
The Quest 2 unquestionably pushed much wider interest in VR than any previous headset. But Facebook seems to have no clue how to sustain that. The only thing they understand is spyware and the wholesale theft of PII. Which are not selling features for any consumer hardware device. And on that note, boo hoo to Carmack that he can't achieve his vision with the spyware purveyors he sold out to and then lied to everyone about how the spyware purveyors wouldn't turn his device into spyware.
The Quest 2 unquestionably pushed much wider interest in VR than any previous headset. But Facebook seems to have no clue how to sustain that. The only thing they understand is spyware and the wholesale theft of PII. Which are not selling features for any consumer hardware device. And on that note, boo hoo to Carmack that he can't achieve his vision with the spyware purveyors he sold out to and then lied to everyone about how the spyware purveyors wouldn't turn his device into spyware.
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Based on my (limited) experience, the most popular applications get updated frequently, and some have dependencies on external servers, so when the headset stops getting OS updates, the applications won't be updated either, and they won't be able to be used any more.
That said, the Quest 2 should be supported at least until the middle of 2027, according to Meta, who have said they'll support the headset at least 3 years after they discontinue it. Again, though, there's when they stop supplying OS updates and when applications stop supporting the headset, and those can be different.
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VR != AR
VR headsets are heavy and expensive mainly because they need to push lots of pixels at a high frame rate to keep up with our eyes resolution and not make us nauseous. That means compute and battery need to be beefy.
AR on the other hand does not require as high resolution or frame rate, since the pass through mitigates the issues of VR. As for the overlay, decent resolution is good enough as many of the Orion reviewers have testified.
Apples way of doing AR with VR passthrough does however seem to ve the wrong way to do it, and is much more subject to the plateau you are speaking of.
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For casual players VR is as you say were they find it fun for a while and then go back to Stardew Valley.
Dad still plays when he gets a chance but it is still "new" to him after us having it a few years because he doesn't get to use it often.
Kids and I love it, but I am a big flight sim geek and flying in VR is a huge advantage. Also, VR boxing/fighting games are good exercise.
Also, games like Payday are easier for me to play in VR over KB/Mouse but not so for everyone.
Some multiplayer games like Phasmaphobia or Keep Talking are more immersive in VR.
Price keeps some people away. Having space for a set keeps some away as well. Beat Saber is fine for a static standing area, but most really do need room to move around.
Like a HOTAS or good racing wheel, they aren't for everyone, but those that do use them are pretty happy with them.
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OG quest owner here.
I don't know why anyone would want to buy into a company with such a poor track record of supporting its products.
Caveat emptor.
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I thought it was pretty well established that this only exists becuase they couldn't get any more of the Quest 2 SOC and making this kind of Quest 2.5 was the way forward without killing off Quest 2?
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You can buy a link cable and continue to use your Quest 2/3 as a tethered headset, probably forever.
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Honestly kind of surprised that Meta cancelled the Pro line of headsets.
After using a Quest 3, what seems obvious is that the future is lighter, higher resolution headsets that use those pancake optics, because the Quest 3 lenses are incredible, and that much of a reduction in thickness really makes the headset a ton more comfortable to wear.
After using a Quest 3, what seems obvious is that the future is lighter, higher resolution headsets that use those pancake optics, because the Quest 3 lenses are incredible, and that much of a reduction in thickness really makes the headset a ton more comfortable to wear.
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Which doesn't do you a lot of good if you were foolish enough to trust Facebook and buy games off the Oculus store.
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Speaking of which, I read that Vaseline can be used to remove scratches from eyeglass lenses.Kyle Orland said:
https://craftygoldenmom.com/how-to-...cratches-from-your-eyeglasses-and-sunglasses/
Or if you haven't any, try toothpaste or banana peels.
https://www.viccieyewear.com/blogs/...scratches-from-your-eyeglasses-and-sunglasses
Or if you wish to avoid the problem altogether, stop wiping your spectacles with your shirt.
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My thoughts come from someone who has owned a DK2, Rift CV 1, Quest 1, Quest 2, Quest 3, HTC Vive, and a Valve Index. I have extensive VR experience going back to the Virtuality systems of the 90s. That makes me an enthusiast for VR tech I suppose.
The Quest 3 is overall the best VR headset I have owned. I borrowed a friend's 3S and pretty much agree with the review in all major points. If you are a 14 year old and spending Christmas money or birthday funds or whatever, the 3S may be the price point you are looking for. Though, really kid, mow some lawns or something to make the extra bucks to buy a 3 and skip the 3S.
Also, I have a separate account with Meta for all my VR stuff. Complaining about Meta at this point in VR discussions is old and often disingenuous. You don't want to buy from Meta, cool. You don't like their history, or policies, or corporate governance, or Zuckerberg, or whatever, cool - you do you, but please stop telling me about how you feel every time VR comes up in discussion.
Finally, the library of experiences, activities, and options continues to grow with a lot of great content. If that library needs to rival Steam for you, okay, this isn't for you and probably never will be. Otherwise, I'd tell you it is a great time with a lot to enjoy. Between VR videos, watching movies, playing games, Horizon Worlds experiences, hanging with friends and building my own stuff - I never run out of things to do.
The Quest 3 is overall the best VR headset I have owned. I borrowed a friend's 3S and pretty much agree with the review in all major points. If you are a 14 year old and spending Christmas money or birthday funds or whatever, the 3S may be the price point you are looking for. Though, really kid, mow some lawns or something to make the extra bucks to buy a 3 and skip the 3S.
Also, I have a separate account with Meta for all my VR stuff. Complaining about Meta at this point in VR discussions is old and often disingenuous. You don't want to buy from Meta, cool. You don't like their history, or policies, or corporate governance, or Zuckerberg, or whatever, cool - you do you, but please stop telling me about how you feel every time VR comes up in discussion.
Finally, the library of experiences, activities, and options continues to grow with a lot of great content. If that library needs to rival Steam for you, okay, this isn't for you and probably never will be. Otherwise, I'd tell you it is a great time with a lot to enjoy. Between VR videos, watching movies, playing games, Horizon Worlds experiences, hanging with friends and building my own stuff - I never run out of things to do.
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The Quest 2 panels were always a weird choice to me. They were higher resolution than the Quest 1, but they lost the IPD adjustment and they were LCD instead of OLED, which was a MASSIVE downgrade. Making the Quest 3S with the same screens make sense from an economical standpoint, they can reuse the tooling they already had while producing less SKUs (since both the 3 and 3S are using the same internals), but since the Quest 2 was already mediocre on that aspect, it doesn't make practical sense, the new lenses are the main advantage of the Quest 3, the power difference still doesn't really do much right now (there's still not a lot of games that were updated to take advantage of it) and if you're using it on a PC, it doesn't change anything at all.
At $300, it's a lot cheaper than the Quest 3, but I feel like it's still not cheap enough to bring new people, those who already have the Quest 2 don't have a strong enough reason to upgrade and those who still don't have one and want it will probably spend the extra for the regular 3 if they're serious about it. It's always good to bring the price down, but it feels like they did too many sacrifices that are just not worth it, it's really just for them to stop producing the Quest 2.
At $300, it's a lot cheaper than the Quest 3, but I feel like it's still not cheap enough to bring new people, those who already have the Quest 2 don't have a strong enough reason to upgrade and those who still don't have one and want it will probably spend the extra for the regular 3 if they're serious about it. It's always good to bring the price down, but it feels like they did too many sacrifices that are just not worth it, it's really just for them to stop producing the Quest 2.
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I'd be willing to bet that compute and battery on 3S is less than 25% of the weight.
Compute requirements of VR and AR are near identical, what makes you think otherwise?
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Don't even need a link cable, a decent wireless connection is sufficient.
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Yes, but it does plenty of good for anyone who is weary of buying a quest due to potential limited support lifetime.
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My 17 yr old son was at a friend's house, and was checking out his Quest 3. The kid had his Quest 2 sitting in his closet, and gave it to my son. So I guess now we've dipped into VR, something that I have avoided investing in over the last couple of years. Can't beat free really. He said it was pretty laggy without being connected to his PC, but it plays ok being connected via USB.
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VR is still an "Oh, wow. That's cool." thing in my world using a Quest 2. And it's nice to watch movies and shows in private while my partner is using the TV. Quest 3 & 3S doesn't seem like a must buy right now unless you're totally gung ho on VR.
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My biggest issue with VR is the discomfort. I do not get why Meta insist with an all-in-one unit. Just place main board and battery in a tethered unit that you strap to your chest or waist, and keep the actual visor as light as possible. That should make the experience much easier for everyone and also introduce flexibility in terms of managing upgrades of cpu, battery and visor separately.
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Agree, Have a Q3 and I have enjoyed it. Do get the Bobo headband however. Much more comfortable.
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If you're dead set on PCVR an air bridge is the way to go when using a Quest. They are pretty affordable and compatible with all recent Quest headsets.
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What headset/strap combinations have you tried?
Moving the battery is easy, moving the mainboard would be an insane engineering challenge for minimal gain and would probably have a ton of downsides. You need bidirectional extremely high bandwidth extremely low latency communication for all the cameras, sensors and displays. In order to do that you'd need an encoding and decoding chip on either end which will add to power consumption, latency, total weight, and cost.
The alternative is to have the mainboard on the headset do everything besides running the OS and applications. At that point you're basically doubling the cost of your compute for a slight weight reduction.
Meta seem to be doing something like that, wirelessly, with their latest public AR glasses, no word on which tasks are done where. But the cost is supposedly extreme.
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Not that different from game consoles when a console flops support vanishes. The last sega consoles and the WiiU show that.
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Get over it? Hell no! Even without the account requirement, it'd mean supporting Facebook. The Oculus has been on my no-buy list from day 0.The Article said:
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I would venture to say that they lose a lot of sales due to the fact that they are Facebook. However, there are a hell of a lot of people on Facebook, so in the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't affect their numbers much.
I wish I was able to run google maps with a mouse since the headset I have has no controllers.
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