Facebook launches cryptocurrency with Visa, MasterCard, Uber, and others
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I am no expert.
But Chase I believe is looking into using blockchain for faster more secure transfers, so it apparently does have uses.
New tech here I believe is mainly about who makes the money off transfers though.
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A rose by any other name smells just as sweet.
A Facebook company by any other name still smells like sh*te.
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I don't care how open source, peered, backed by significant players, legally bound to be private, regulated, finanically stable, not ruled by facebook, <insert anything else you want here> it is. If it was spear headed by facebook it's tainted in my opinion. I won't touch it. I'll try to be realistic here, if someone left me $100,000 in inheritance free for the taking I'd probably think about it and then eventually sign up. But barring that. No.
NO.
NO NO NO NO!
NO.
NO NO NO NO!
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Does Zuckerberg look at something like Weyland-Yutani and think "Yea that's a cool and great future for humanity and society"?
I mean someone somewhere in facebook clearly thinks it.
I mean someone somewhere in facebook clearly thinks it.
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what moron would trust a currency written supported backed by uber lyft facebook mastercard visa..?
is this a joke lmao
no thanks 4 of the most evil companies on the planet want their own money sure itll benefit humanity
the streets used prepays & amazon wishlists among other things but im sure plenty of idiots will be duped into this crap
is this a joke lmao
no thanks 4 of the most evil companies on the planet want their own money sure itll benefit humanity
the streets used prepays & amazon wishlists among other things but im sure plenty of idiots will be duped into this crap
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oh theyll offer everyon 1 fb credit to buy an emoji pack or song & get millions of idiots
theyd have to wire a grand to one of my real accounts to sign up then id still automatically delete it
can these billionaires just go retire to their islands & die already, enough with the saving humanity thru apps let the doctors & scientists handle things
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I guess I need to read the fine print on my Visa now to see if they're already telling Facebook about everything I purchase.
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I look forward to the Russians using this new digital currency to literally buy votes in the 2020 election.
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Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
Zuck: Just ask
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS
[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don't know why.
Zuck: They "trust me"
Zuck: Dumb fucks
Zuck: Just ask
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS
[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don't know why.
Zuck: They "trust me"
Zuck: Dumb fucks
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a billionaire could just fund a prepaid card that works everywhere, has a max limit of 500$, a deposit only acct# so anyone could deposit to it, thats basically treated like cash if you lose it oh well only works online of you kept the number
a basic bank account not much risk
but then they couldnt stalk all your pringles purchases
none of this is complicated but a bunch of assholes who never earned a penny in their life exist as nothing but middle men & parasites that need to profit from everyone elses labor & spending & of course they have to stalk you, knowing you bought that bubblegum at 7/11 at 3:05pm in 2015 is valuable info it might ine day stop a terror guy
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OrangeCream
Ars Legatus Legionis
My guess is that they are trying to eliminate multiple levels of the transaction, which eliminates costs and fees.
If all entities automatically authenticate and coordinate without use of humans to reconcile transactions, then you can facilitate more transactions with fewer fees and less barriers of entry.
IE, allowing transactions of $0.30 because you only charge $0.02 (instead of the current minimum transaction fee, which might be $0.30)
Fees vary, but for example:
Interchange fees: Visa charnges 0.05% + 0.21 on regulated Visa Check Cards. Their credit card fees are all over the place, but 1.95% + 0.1 is what they charge for restaurants via rewards cards.
Assessment fees: Visa charges 0.13% for Debit, 0.14% for Credit, as well as APF debit/credit fees, refund fees, and a $0.0018 system file transmission fee.
Markup fees (profit on top of the base fees)
Transaction fees: Here is an example where a $0.35 authorization fee and $0.12 communication fee, some are per transaction and some are per session.
TLDR; I'm sure VISA and MasterCard are aware of attempts to flatten the system to eliminate costs, fees, and overhead, and want to be part of this to ensure they still get their cut even if it's a very very small one.
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Absolutely nothing for you. For them, they give everyone a zero balance crypto account and voila, European rules require them to never delete *anything*. They've gone and used EU banking laws against EU privacy laws.
I have to hand it to Facebook, they're good at figuring ways out of problems.
They don't care if this ever gets used, that isn't the goal.
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Majority of consumers are uninformed about this (online tracking, privacy, reselling payment history, scummy behavior by some of those companies...). Vast majority in fact. They'd see that list of companies and think 'dream team' un-ironically.
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The core reserve is going to be placed in low risk diversified investments (mostly securities in stable financial systems). The goal of the reserve being to stabilize the value of libra earnings from these investments will be used for operating costs r&d etc then applied as dividends for these initial investors. One expects that facebook and it's large cash reserves will be a significant holder of these investor tokens. This is the direct way in which it will make money.
Indirectly it will facilitate earnings for companies which accept and pay in libra. Particularly in the developing world the unbanked and those lacking credit are untapped markets. Libra would allow for these companies global ambitions to utilize these markets to be realized. Basically Libra doesn't need to make money hand over fist if working in Libra allows Facebook et al to market services in Africa, India, Southeast Asia, or compete in china (doubtful given the controls China places on most things).
Lastly there is the unanswered question of how these assets will be held for Tax purposes. As I recall Calibra is incorporated in Switzerland as an LLC so most likely funds in Libra will be held in that jurisdiction for tax purposes. The ability to take in funds from the world over with the oversight being that of a Tax Haven might also be part of the goal here.
There is the possibility to tap the buying habits of users for further datamining but that seems a minor side hustle compared to the new markets and possible tax implications. A currency that is truly global and not under the direct control of a government is very very attractive to global corporate interests even without exploitation of payment data.
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The breadth of partners is notable. With arms in everything it may have the lobbying dollars behind it to avoid getting swept up in regulation talk. Any politicians supporting it yet?
Hail Libra!
Hail Libra!
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Facebook has really earned by trust by
--stealing my private SMS data unrelated to Facebook products
--stealing my call history data unrelated to Facebook products
--stealing contact lists unrelated to Facebook products
--tracking people online, even those without Facebook accounts;
--secretly selling data en mass to "trusted partners" without any vetting, ie. Cambridge Analytica
--and many more I haven't listed here.
I can't think of a worse company to trust with anything, let alone money.
--stealing my private SMS data unrelated to Facebook products
--stealing my call history data unrelated to Facebook products
--stealing contact lists unrelated to Facebook products
--tracking people online, even those without Facebook accounts;
--secretly selling data en mass to "trusted partners" without any vetting, ie. Cambridge Analytica
--and many more I haven't listed here.
I can't think of a worse company to trust with anything, let alone money.
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Customer account? That defeats one of the main advantages cryptocurrencies are supposed to have, namely pseudonymity. Given that Libra is controlled by a consortium of corporations, the second advantage - independence from a central agency - is also not applicable. That leaves the third advantage, small payments. If they don't even achieve that, Libra has no advantages when compared credit & debit cards, Paypal etc. . Maybe it is intended for people who can't use these options, but I fail to see how such people would make a deposit into a Libra account unless their employers deposit the wages into a Libra account or the Libra user receives money from another Libra user.
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Don't they currently not charge any fees for transfers? I had a feeling they were up to something with that...now we know what it is.
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Reads to me like they're leaving the door open to selling people's financial data/spending habits to select third parties.
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If that's really what they're up to, I reluctantly have to hand it to them. That's some good evil right there.
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I have to wonder what advantage they get by adding "blockchain" to this thing. Couldn't these entities all agree to make a regular bank with regular accounts and share the database between them? It's not a public blockchain, so why isn't it just a database?
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Maybe I'm missing something, but this sounds like buying Facebook bucks to be used on the latest Farmville/Texas Holdem/Whatever Facebook based game.. but with added "function" of being able to send those Facebook bucks to a family member who can possibly trade them in for a Visa giftcard at some unknown conversion rate and "minimal" transaction fee.. or pay your bills?
They're just dressing this up with buzzwords of cryptocurrency/blockchain.
...Why? What possible benefit does this have for people instead of doing a wire transfer or ACH or something via traditional financial institutions? Or you know.. emailing a digital giftcard (that has no charge usually.)
It seems to me, the end goal here is expanded data collection that will only tip the scales in favor Facebook's bank account. /puts on sunglasses
They're just dressing this up with buzzwords of cryptocurrency/blockchain.
...Why? What possible benefit does this have for people instead of doing a wire transfer or ACH or something via traditional financial institutions? Or you know.. emailing a digital giftcard (that has no charge usually.)
It seems to me, the end goal here is expanded data collection that will only tip the scales in favor Facebook's bank account. /puts on sunglasses
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Shared ledgers, payment processing, and facebook. I imagine that the lure is the complete transaction history of every single user, plus usage fees in the future. Apparently, blockchains like these are far cheaper to operate than traditional payment processing as well.
The benefit to these companies is obvious, but isn't the digital world invasive and privacy-hostile enough already?
The benefit to these companies is obvious, but isn't the digital world invasive and privacy-hostile enough already?
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What is the benefit of using this extra step (dollars -> crypto -> dollars)? What would I, as a potential user, get that I don't already get from a credit or debit card?
Maybe not much... except not needing to use your credit or debit card. Or perhaps being able to link this to one of those cards to have another method of payment via this method.
There are lots of people around the world to may not have or use those cards, or they may not have a bank account. This could give those people another option to pay for things. I can also see this solving some issues with cross-border payments and currency exchanges. (not that I do it, but I am sure a lot of people do)
I don't use FB and don't trust them, but I do use WA... was using it before they were bought by FB. And I know that it is HUGE in India. I think in this scenario, FB is the frontend for the payment, whereas companies like Visa/MC are providing the payment network. Hopefully they will keep it safe and secure, but I can't see trusting FB with anything else.
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I figured I’d start to see it if I stared at this long enough. I’d start to see something. And there’s a huge negative space in Facebook’s statement:
Calibra (the digital wallet service) will not share account information or financial data. But Facebook doesn’t necessarily need data from Calibra. Whatever data Facebook can glean during Libra transactions that happen on Facebook, they can keep and associate with your Facebook account. In fact, they have a valid legal basis to keep that data for a substantial period of time—it’s a record of a financial transaction.
Facebook controls the payment network. Facebook wouldn’t be restricted by existing payment card network (Visa / MasterCard / AmEx) rules, which are the reason businesses can’t keep your credit card number and use it to profile you. Facebook is drastically lowering transaction fees, and could probably start offering “free” Libra to customers in exchange for data-sharing activities that further build the customer’s profile. And who knows what insights analytics Facebook is doing on all those servers running the blockchain calculations “for free...”
Don’t focus on how Facebook will get personal data out of Calibra or third-party Libra participants. Those things are designed to be privacy-appeasing, you won’t find the answers there. Look at how Facebook can manipulate Libra to glean insights or justify long-term data retention on its customers under modern privacy laws... and you’ll start to see the big picture.
See it?
Calibra (the digital wallet service) will not share account information or financial data. But Facebook doesn’t necessarily need data from Calibra. Whatever data Facebook can glean during Libra transactions that happen on Facebook, they can keep and associate with your Facebook account. In fact, they have a valid legal basis to keep that data for a substantial period of time—it’s a record of a financial transaction.
Facebook controls the payment network. Facebook wouldn’t be restricted by existing payment card network (Visa / MasterCard / AmEx) rules, which are the reason businesses can’t keep your credit card number and use it to profile you. Facebook is drastically lowering transaction fees, and could probably start offering “free” Libra to customers in exchange for data-sharing activities that further build the customer’s profile. And who knows what insights analytics Facebook is doing on all those servers running the blockchain calculations “for free...”
Don’t focus on how Facebook will get personal data out of Calibra or third-party Libra participants. Those things are designed to be privacy-appeasing, you won’t find the answers there. Look at how Facebook can manipulate Libra to glean insights or justify long-term data retention on its customers under modern privacy laws... and you’ll start to see the big picture.
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The advantage of which is it gives them a business model that isn't dependent on harvesting your personal financial info.
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The Libra may fail because of its ties to an untrustworthy company like Facebook. But that does not mean this idea is not something that will be very useful. I don't have to open a libra account with facebook, I could open it with Mastercard. I already trust them with most of my financial transactions and yes they also collect and sell my info to their associated marketers. I certainly like the idea of a financially backed coin, that the backing can be readily audited to ensure coins are not just made up and there is a transaction of more assets for each coin minted. Mastercard will make money on this as they always have, on those people that want to spend more then their current assets allow. I assume Mastercard would loan people Libra for an outrageous interest payment. Transaction costs could shrink as there would not be a currency exchange for international payments. I could certainly imagine a migratory worker in the US more easily transfer some Libra to their family in Mexico with less overhead then a transaction they may have today. A good idea in my opinion, a financially backed global electronic currency, that may be doomed because they start with Facebook being the face of the program.
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Wow! So much love for the current system of Visa and MasterCard, who have passed their fees and liberal acceptance of fraudulent purchases (got my chip, where's my pin?) onto vendors who have to raise prices for everyone. You only see the difference rarely - often at the gas pump where you can save 5% or so by using cash. And let's not forget their collaboration with the credit agencies who leaked everything about nearly everyone. Thanks Experian!
At least we rich folks can get credit cards - Visa just asked me if I want another $10,000 credit increase (I'm solidly "middle class" US). Less wealthy people pay an incredible amount to access their money and are lucky if they can get any reasonable credit at all.
The other currencies fluctuate greatly in value and are an energy apocalypse. If Facebook can reduce friction in transactions between people, for people of limited incomes, and across borders, more power to them. No one is saying you have to put your life savings into it.
At least we rich folks can get credit cards - Visa just asked me if I want another $10,000 credit increase (I'm solidly "middle class" US). Less wealthy people pay an incredible amount to access their money and are lucky if they can get any reasonable credit at all.
The other currencies fluctuate greatly in value and are an energy apocalypse. If Facebook can reduce friction in transactions between people, for people of limited incomes, and across borders, more power to them. No one is saying you have to put your life savings into it.
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No, it's perfectly true. Just assume that "limited cases" == "anyone that Zuckerberg can sell all your financial info to" and you will be fine.
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Awesome idea for a video game! Doom framework with FB as the arena. Please, please, please. Somebody do this.
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After some scandal:
Oh, but users consented. we updated our 50-page privacy agreement, it was burried on page 47, with a 4pt light grey font, right after the last paragraph, and the user clicked the big "I agree" button without reading it.
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Because user will say "Hey, Facebook, delete my data" and Facebook will say "sorry, no can do. Blockchain tech needs ALL records to be kept valid". It's not a matter of "legal 10-year whatever", it's forever for blockchain. Facebook just can't ever delete old data without compromising the whole chain.
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I get the feeling this really isn't targeted for US-only transactions, but for countries where currency isn't as stable. Also, transactions could potentially avoid interchange transaction fees.
What is the benefit of using this extra step (dollars -> crypto -> dollars)? What would I, as a potential user, get that I don't already get from a credit or debit card?
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