Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive164
Theobald Tiger
edit| Theobald Tiger warned as an AE action. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:20, 13 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Theobald Tigeredit
This editor was significantly involved with the Landmark Worldwide topic on nl-wiki. There was some kind of block put in place (block log), and I am unclear what the circumstance of that is. It appears that the nl-wiki block has been lifted. Upon arrival here, the editor displayed in-depth experience with the Landmark subject,[1] and appears to have a strong POV (evidenced in the diffs above).
I am somewhat surprised that the unfounded accusations and occasional outright attacks continue. It seems unlikely that I need to address all of the uninvolved parties accusations, but I will attempt to do so.
Thank you to the admins and arbs for your attention. --Tgeairn (talk) 05:14, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Theobald TigereditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Theobald TigereditI will comment briefly on the difflinks provided by Tgeairn:
A topic ban for Tgeairn seems to me indicated. My blocklog on nl.wiki has absolutely nothing to do with Landmark as two admins on nl.wiki (Josq & CaAl) and a Dutch speaking admin on en.wiki (Drmies) have attested. I wish the Arbitration Committee wisdom and understanding when investigating the case and passing judgment on our actions. Theobald Tiger (talk) 22:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by AstynaxeditTgeairn was also explicitly made aware of discretionary sanctions[3] and hopefully admins will take his own activity into account. Tgeairn is almost certainly aware (as he commented here, where it was a notable part of the discussion) that the calumny recently raised at ARCA[4] regarding Theobald Tiger's participation on nl.wikipedia has no more merit or relevance here than it did a week ago. Nor were Theobald Tiger's reverts unjustified, as they merely restored massive and incremental blanking reverts of referenced material. Tgeairn himself participated in the blanking of this material. Arbcom invited new eyes to the article, yet those who have arrived (Manul, Cathar66, Legacypac, IronGargoyle, in addition to Theobald Tiger) have been subjected to the same intransigent reversion/blanking and talk page hectoring (including unilateral reversion, citing an invalid rationale, of a Move survey by a non-involved editor[5][6]) behavior by Landmark advocates which I attempted to describe in the original arbcom case. This is also not the first attempt to entangle fresh eyes who have come to the article in WP:DR processes, which is itself very off-putting. • Astynax talk 19:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Legacypacedit1. BOOMARANG this - the edit history on Landmark Worldwide shows the tactics clearly of systematically deleting material. 2. The Editor who filed this unfounded complaint is the subject of an active Sockpuppet investigation [7] over conduct on this article. Let's see where that goes before taking this too seriously. 3. It was well established that th nl-wiki block was nothing to do with this issue. Legacypac (talk) 21:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by DaveAptereditIt seems disingenuous for Legacypac to point out that Tgeairn is the subject of "an active sockpuppet investigation" without making it clear that he himself was the editor who requested that investigation. I can't help wondering what prompted it, as the reasons seem no more than conjecture. Rather than attempting to introduce distractions to this Enforcement Request by making counter-accusations, perhaps a specific request, with evidence, should be made here if Legacypac thinks this is called for. I should have hoped that the conclusion of the recent Arbcom Case with no findings or sanctions passed against Tgeairn would have put an end to the continued accusations being levelled against him, but if anything the intensity of the attacks has increased. DaveApter (talk) 17:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC) Further responses to comments by Cathar66editThe comments from Cathar66 below seem to be the latest attempt to draw attention away from the substantive points of this request by casting aspersions on the messenger. Cathar66's principal contribution to the Landmark article has been to re-introduce the majority of a highly contentious mass edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=645233779&oldid=645085794
I have also followed the links alleging 'forum shopping' and cannot find anything contentious, nor any “less than truthful comments” by Tgeairn, or even any mention of Cathar66. The combined effect of all these attacks is beginning to look like a classic instance of a WP:POV railroad intended to undermine the credibility of Tgeairn rather than to address the merits of his arguments. DaveApter (talk) 18:41, 2 February 2015 (UTC) Reply to Astyanxedit
Statement by Short Brigade Harvester BoriseditAs someone who has never edit the article, and frankly has little interest in the topic, a look at this filing and the article talk page shows dubious behavior all around. (Note that some of the diffs entered by the plaintiff are very borderline, including the so-called "personal attacks.") I conclude that the only way we're going to get a neutral, well-written article is if new editors come in. For that to happen will require admins to Statement by Cathar66editI visited the Landmark article for the first time on 18 January 2015. Having read the article I edited out 2 pieces within which were not reliable sourced. Tgeairn wrote a note on my talk page wondering why I thought that the Irish Daily Mail and Mayfair (magazine) are not RS.( an unusual question from an editor I now know to have made over 40k edits) I replied that a tabloid newspaper and a soft porn mag are definitely not RS. I understand Theobald Tiger's frustration as this editor purports elsewhere to be an expert on RS. This actually made me interested in Landmark and I the read the talk page reread the article and did a sourced (NYT} 3 word edit which caused a furore on the talk page - I let the other editors get on with it while I familiarised myself more with the subject. I am not afraid of editing but the hostility on the talk page was unreal. How are new editors supposed to get involved with the talk page behaviour of Tgeairn. The wrong editor is before this ANI People in glass houses should not throw stones. I have looked at the difs cited in the complaint. I agree with Short Brigade Harvester Boris that the behaviour is borderline in some of the edits but justified by Theobald Tiger in others. I would also like to comment about forum shopping by Tgeairn who has commented less than truthfully directly and indirectly on me at AN, JzG and also at Drmies and hope that my replies on the first and last of those pages are educational for him .Cathar66 (talk) 22:10, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Your selected difs are mischievous. The first dif you used was totally justified because of Tgeairn removal of content which was reliably sourced. Tgeairn then reverted it without sufficient reason [9] Theobald Tiger correctly reverted this with an explicit explanation.The next interjection was by a now banned IP who blanked the section noting (Remove slanderous accusations). Instead of reverting this as any reasonable editor would do he edited other sections removing a sourced reference [10]then removed another source with a misleading edit summary [11] and others until ashyntax reverted to the last stable version before the ip reversion which the banned ip 173.161.39.97 then reverted using a bs reason (Removing these attacks. Stop placing untrue stories here.) IronGargoyle correctly reverted this vandalism. The banned ip reverted again for another bs reason and Legacypac correctly reverted this. I read the section that was being edit warred and tried to put it in more NPOV language. Tgeairn ridiculed this on the talk page obviously not understanding my intent despite the edit summaries stating starting abbreviated text - more neutrally worded. The IP as a sock puppet or one of a banned editor I don't know. I do know that another ip 23.25.38.121 [12]may be a sock puppet for Tgeairn as the language used in an anally retentive style is similar to Tgeairn. This ,and other edits by this IP, I will raise this at sock puppet investigations (as soon as I figure out how). (The Irish Mail on Sunday article is only referenced online in Wiki sourced sites and Landmark related PR sites. The Irish daily Mail is not available online as it is a regional version of the UK Daily Mail. (more info) It was originally added to the page by the same US based Comcast IP at 12 July 2012 [13] so this IP is connected to Landmark internal sources. At 23:04, 21 August 2012 Citation bot fixed the citation on this reference with the reference Misc citation tidying. | Tgeairn when this section and others was deleted DaveApter restored it on 10 September 2012 [14] when this was then deleted Tgeairn restored it. Finally I'm rusty and not particularly familiar with BOOMERANG and believe a topic ban for this and all NRM articles is appropriate for Tgeairn. Like the Spanish Inquisition in Monty Python I have yet one more comment (maybe two) to add Dave Apter your COI is obvious and the “I did not include Apter in proposed sanctions because I didn't think the evidence presented warranted it.” reflects on the quality of the evidence presented and not on your COI behavior. I will review the evidence and eventually present sufficient cause for an enforcement. It's
Statement by (username)editResult concerning Theobald TigereditThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Steeletrap
edit| No action taken; no compelling case for disruption. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 18:21, 13 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Steeletrapedit
This is my first AE, and I apologize in advance for any technical errors I may have made completing this form.
Atsme☯Consult 16:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SteeletrapeditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SteeletrapeditI was not edit warring. The Griffin article has nothing to do with my topic ban. Hence in the last AE sanctions case against me--the successful one--no one raised the issue of my editing the Griffin page. Steeletrap (talk) 21:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC) The diffs cited of Jytdog admonishing me are out of context. Jytdog supported my edit that OP is objecting to here. He opposed an edit of mine which added new content. My edit was reverted and I did not re-add it. Steeletrap (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC) Note that my single edit to the Griffin page--which I have not tried to restore, and whose reversion I accepted (via the Griffin talk page) prior to the commencement of this action--did not refer to him as a CT. It merely referred to him as a promoter of alternative medicine and fringe science. The man believes HIV does not cause AIDS, and that laetrile cure cancer, so my characterization is hardly non-NPOC. Still, I have accepted its reversion. Steeletrap (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by SPECIFICOeditAtsme has unclean hands in this matter. [51]. SPECIFICO talk 16:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by JytdogeditSuggest boomerang. Please see 3RR thread I had opened with regard to Atsme just prior to this AE being opened by Atsme, here. Please also note Atsme's response in that board action. Jytdog (talk) 21:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC) (clarify that it was just before - a few hours Jytdog (talk) 05:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)) While Steeletrap did edit aggressively, Steeletrap later (in the midst of Atsme's edit warring described in my 3RR post above) posted on my Talk page acknowledging that she should have shown more restraint: see User_talk:Jytdog#In_retrospect.... That was after I had urged her to stop editing the article and seek consensus first, here: Talk:G._Edward_Griffin#Edits_today. I have seen no such insight from Atsme. Jytdog (talk) 21:49, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by CollecteditWe already have Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Requesting_review_of_close_of_RfC_at_Griffin_article where the issues have been discussed at length. That regards an RfC whose close is likely to be upheld which found calling a person a "conspiracy theorist" in Wikipedia's voice was improper. The current issue is whether, presuming that the RfC closer's conclusions were proper, whether "advocate of alternative medicine and fringe science" in Wikipedia's voice falls under the same WP:BLP stricture as "conspiracy theorist" does when made in Wikipedia's voice. It may be that this is a content dispute, but where an administrator Nyttend (who appears to be an experienced editor and administrator) has apparently ruled that it is a matter of WP:BLP requirement, then it is unlikely that ArbCom is likely to overturn it when the close was upheld at WP:AN. And in that case the issue should be whether the onus falls on the first to undo such an action [52] and not on the successive edits. Callanecc's solution is good - but does not address that initial reversal of an admin's edit apparently made on BLP grounds. . Proposal's for "boomerang" or the like are, IMO, ill-judged. Collect (talk) 22:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC) The close was:
Which quite appears to indicate the closer viewed the term "conspiracy theorist" to be intrinsically "derogatory" and violative of NPOV - and the requirement for "self-identification" appears to draw directly onWP:BLP) @Callanecc Either "1RR per week" or a variant which would not count clear attempts at compromise language as reverts (which I have always felt should be encouraged in cases of reasonable disagreement as to language). I also feel that reverts of a closing admin's edit may need to be dealt with at some point - perhaps WP should take a position that an edit done by an admin in affirmation of a close by that admin should be directly connected to any appeal of such a close? Collect (talk) 12:43, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Pekay2editStay on point. This is not about Atsme, but rather Steeltrap. It's bizarre that this team is supporting Steeltrap knowing that she made edits that the closer said are "a derogatory characterization of the guy, a fundamental non-compliance with maintaining a neutral point of view." [53]--Pekay2 (talk) 22:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Arthur RubineditIt is quite proper to discuss Atsme's edit warring to include positive controversial unsourced statements about Griffin. That the close covered negative (actually sourced, but for the purpose of argument, call them unsourced) statements about Griffin doesn't make Steeletrap's (I'll come back to correct spelling later, have to meet my wife at a shopping center) addition of inadequately sourced statements about Griffin's views an improper edit; to the extent he/she was edit-warring, he was also cancelling BLP violations by Atsme. I'll check the detailed edits, later. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Kingofaces43editI've been watching this article from afar (relatively uninvolved aside from an RfC comment), but I was surprised to see this posting. I don't see any obvious egregious sanction violations by Steeletrap presented here. They definitely came into the article hot, but scaled back pretty quickly when the edit warring was brought to their attention and they were asked to slow down. The fact that they stopped the problem behavior pretty quickly would seem to indicate any action for Steeletrap isn’t going to actually help anything at this point in time. However, this posting seems to be retaliatory in nature, so it does seem like a boomerang would be in order. Atsme has had a tendency to lash out at editors in disagreement as part of a battleground behavior multiple editors have warned her about, accuse others of stonewalling because her ideas are not getting traction in consensus, etc. [54][55][ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Atsme&oldid=646423626#BRD_at_Griffin.2C_please]. Trying to help out Atsme with her own behavior issues has just resulted in strange retaliatory warnings [56] considering those warnings given to her test edits or improper because she's a "regular". Basically not wanting to hear about her own behavior problems, but turning around and making those same accusations of other editors. Seems very much like a WP:THETRUTH attitude the article has been suffering with for awhile. Statements above by Atsme are pretty common by painting others' actions as BLP, NPOV violations, etc. when it appears she just isn't familiar the spirit of WP:PSCI policy in how we handle BLPs, or the related Arbcom decisions relating to pseudoscience, fringe/conspiracy theories, etc. as Callanec posted in the admin section below. To an outside observer who's been following this topic, the case presented here looks more like a very large and dirty pot calling the kettle black for a smudge. Maybe it would be better to separate Atsme's behavior out into a separate case here if her behavior is really going to be focused on in the context of both BLP and pseduoscience sanctions; there is a lot of history that would need to be explored if that was the case. However, it does seem like the behavior of other involved editors (namely the OP of this posting) should be considered in the specific case of Steeletrap's interactions. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:19, 11 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by JzGeditAnother day, another wall of text defence of quackery apologia on the Griffin article by Atsme. I honestly thought Atsme was over this crusade by now, but apparently not. The fact that the Griffin article is a biography has absolutely no bearing on the fact that laetrile is quackery of a particularly pernicious and exploitative kind. It has been described as the most lucrative health fraud in American history, and it is just one of a number of conspiracy theories advanced as fact by Griffin. That that he is a notorious crank and proponent of conspiracy theories and pseudoscience is a simple fact, it is not our problem to solve, and certainly not something we should excise from the record. I do not think Atsme can edit productively in any area related to Griffin. I strongly suspect that anything related to laetrile, and possibly even to the John Birch Society and its many bizarre ideas, may also be a problem. It's a shame. Atsme is very nice, but on this subject she is entirely wrong, and obstinately so. Arthur Rubin is precisely correct: Steeltrap will not repeat the problem, Atsme undoubtedly will, and is, and needs to be removed from this article before she ends up blocked for tendentious editing. Guy (Help!) 19:11, 12 February 2015 (UTC) General comment by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeeditAt the risk of someone invoking Godwin's law, it is not a WP:BLP violation to describe someone as a conspiracy theorist, if reliable sources do so, any more so than it is to describe, for example, David Irving as a holocaust denier. This request seems to indicate that self-identification is required. It is not. Most conspiracy theorists don't describe themselves as conspiracy theorists. This is why we should rely on secondary sources (independent of the subject) with a reputation for accuracy and fact-checking. That said, I have never heard of this person before, and did not check whether reliable sources described them as a conspiracy theorist. Mine is just a general comment about WP:BLP and WP:V policies. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:55, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by S. RicheditI have followed Steeletrap for some time now. (Indeed, I've been accused of stalking in this regard.) Moreover, I have been involved in supporting requests for sanctions when Steeletrap stepped beyond the redline with various edits. With this in mind, I do not see a case for sanctions here. Steeletrap is excitable (hormone-driven?), snarky (non-AGF), often sloppy with her edits (necessitating self-reverts, etc), and too often adds "over-the-top" edit summaries ("These bunglers need Miss Steele's insight!" and "rmv per WP:Competent"). But this level of misbehavior does not rise to a level where AE is warranted. If Steeletrap violates her TBAN, I will pounce. But lacking more egregious editor-behavior transgressions, I recommend closing this thread. – S. Rich (talk) 06:08, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)editResult concerning Steeletrapedit
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Russian editor1996
edit| Wrong venue. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 19:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Russian editor1996edit
Whilst the editor in question was plenty disruptive, I wonder why administrator Coffee blocked User:Russian editor1996. According to his block notice, he issued the block under WP:ARBEE. However, it was not logged at WP:AC/DSL/2015 until I asked him about it. What's more, the editor was never issued an alert per WP:AC/DS. Coffee has not explained why the editor in question was blocked indefinitely, and I can see nothing that warrants such a block. This seems entirely out of process. Coffee responded that the block was per "IAR", but no reason was given for applying IAR, and I'm fairly certain that DS should not be issued in a willy-nilly manner. RGloucester — ☎ 14:40, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Russian editor1996editStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Russian editor1996editThis is ridiculous, as I've made apparent at my talk page. RGloucester stated himself on my talk page that "the editor in question was nothing but disruptive", yet wonders why he was indefinitely blocked. I would find this humorous, but it's really kind of sad that an editor on this site doesn't understand the concept of preventative blocking... especially, in major areas of concern for this site (like the Eastern European conflict), where disruption can cause ridiculous headaches for good editors trying to contribute to our site. Last year I completed many blocks of this nature, some with warning, some without (WP:IAR applied then as it does now). The editor was obviously WP:NOTHERE to help build an encyclopedia, and is now no longer able to edit. It's that simple. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 18:01, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by abhilashkrishneditI feel sad when people are not following the correct process when Blocking someone. Users should be properly informed when any actions are carrying out on them. - abhilashkrishn talk 11:08, 14 February 2015 (UTC) Result concerning Russian editor1996edit
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Tarc
edit| Tarc was blocked for 72 hours by Callanecc and serve his time; discussion about Avono seems to have petered out. No prejudice against a future report against either party. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:21, 19 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tarcedit
Discussion concerning TarceditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TarceditDiff #1, albeit snarky, is in regards to a policy question wrt ban exceptions, it was not a comment on the Gamergate topic. This was on an admin's talk page, and if said admin did not have a problem with it, I see little reason for Avono to come crying to AE. Diff #2 is an observation that either the God-King or an Arbitrator may be being a bit less than truthful, as their statements are in direct contradiction to one another. Again, not a discussion about Gamergate itself. The weight I put upon a "complaint" filed by a) a single-purpose-account who b) was not involved in either discussion is immeasurably infinitesimal. In both instances, I was discussing the failings of Wikipedian editors in regards to policy. None of it was directly tied to the hallowed gamergate...a topic which no longer exists on my watchlist in any form. In perusing recent AE cases though, it is heartening to see that several of Avono's GG cohorts have been shown the door, which is likely the source for this angsty and malicious filing. He and bros no doubt celebrated the Arb finding that topic-banned...or banned outright in the case of the shafted Ryulong...several of us, and anticipated that the coast was clear for a pro-Gamergate slant to the topic area. It must be a bitter pill to swallow to see karma returned in thrice. For that, my joy is immense. Tarc (talk) 19:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by AvonoeditYou edited a talkpage titled "Barnof" in which Carrite states Comment by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeeditI don't see how diff #2 is anything but a topic-ban violation. The point of a topic-ban is to get an editor to completely disengage from a particular topic, not to let them poke around the edges of it. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:44, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
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Statement by DHeywardeditAlready NBSB has been warned by HJ Mitchell that he walking on the wrong side of the razors edge. Avono pointing out the same issue wit Tarc is not somehow sanctionable against Avono. Bernstein is blocked. There can be no interaction with him. It's ludicrous to even propose that pointing out actual TBAN violations is somehow the fault of the victims. If admins don't like the TBANs take it up with ArbCom but not those that report it. They are TBanned for a reason, not by mistake. Tarc was warned as well so "snarky" doesn't cut it as an excuse. --DHeyward (talk) 05:45, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
HJ_Mitchell I believe the complaint was over multiple talk pages and particularly this one [63] and filed immediately. The slow part was that the discussion got sidetracked by talk of sanctioning the filer. You should probably recuse yourself if you believe an AE sanction request is a "grudge" when other admins have already found a sanctionable complaint while still others agree it was a good faith report. AE requests can be declined without attributing malice to the filer. I don't recall "grudge" being used in previous sanctions and doesn't appear to be "uninvolved" language if that's how you view enforcing these sanctions. You may wish to revise using your talk page as an Arbitration Enforcement Free Zone as it's not a privilege enjoyed anywhere else on WP. --DHeyward (talk) 05:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Bosstopheredit@Black Kite: Please could you move your comment into the statement section. You have discussed the content of related articles[64][65], as well as participated in a content disputes in the article on issues not pertaining to BLP violations.[66][67][68] Bosstopher (talk) 18:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by starship.painteditIs there evidence that Avono has submitted dubious reports? If there is none, why should they be restricted from future reporting of others' disruptive actions? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 02:18, 15 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved Guy MaconeditI strongly agree with the basic principle that commenting on the bans of people who banned from the area you are banned from is a violation of your ban. It stops a lot of "nibbling around the edges". Limited comments on your own ban are acceptable, in my opinion, and comments indication that you either agree with and will obey a topic ban or that you disagree with but will still obey a topic ban are especially valuable. These are, however subtle distinctions that are not obvious from the standard topic-ban wording, and thus a user should get at least one warning / explanation of the consensus / de facto policy before being blocked for such behavior. I am also very concerned that a user has been blocked by another administrator for comments made on an administrator's talk page. I have always assumed that, should I be sanctioned in any way, I am free to discuss anything about that sanction and related sanctions with any administrator on his talk page, including commenting on the bans of people who banned from the area I was banned from. It should be up to the administrator who I am talking with to decide whether to tell me to stop discussing something his talk page. I would like to see the block clarified to show that it was for the comment on the non-admin's talk page only. Editors who are sanctioned, including topic bans, often feel wronged and wish to seek redress instead of disengaging. Assume for the sake of argument that in their particular case they have a point. Do we really wish to force them into email discussions with the admin and lose the benefit of open discussions with a history that anyone can view? Now assume for the sake of argument that in their particular case they have no case at all. Isn't it better in such a case to have the admin they asked explain this and encourage them to disengage and to do so where everyone can see the comments on both sides? There has to be a balance between sanctioned users dropping the stick and feeling that they have to go elsewhere to seek redress. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:28, 16 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)editResult concerning Tarcedit
@DHeyward: I am not familiar with or do not recall NBSB's reports aside from the one against Retartist, but if you present a request here with diffs, I will look at it along with everyone else. That report against Retartist concerned a significant BLP violation and so the consensus of administrators was they would not block due to this. None of Avono's reports that I am aware of are about BLP violations. I am not concerned about the volume of Avono's reports, I am concerned about their focus on a particular individual. Now that he has been topic banned from discussing that editor, he appears to have moved on to a different editor. It is a pattern that concerns me. Gamaliel (talk) 22:27, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
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AnsFenrisulfr
edit| Topic-banned. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:27, 19 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning AnsFenrisulfredit
AnsFenrisulfr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a "brand new user" who has essentially no contributions to Wikipedia other than commentary around Gamergate, some of which seems to me to amount to simple trolling. The user exhibits classic gamergater WP:CPUSH tactics. Guy (Help!) 18:57, 12 February 2015 (UTC) DS notice was issued by Gamaliel, 22:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC) ([71]) but does not appear to have triggered the edit filter. This account should, I think be speedily removed from the fray.
Discussion concerning AnsFenrisulfreditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by AnsFenrisulfreditWow, just... wow. So, the first diff you use as evidence is my apologizing to someone. And the second is of an AE report which I have APOLOGIZED publically to NbSB for laying against him, due to me misunderstanding BANEX. [72] <- Me apologizing to NbSB I am also somewhat perturbed by you implying I am a sock... because I knew how to do something. I had 13 days between my last post in GamerGate Controversy and that date. Did it not occur to you that I could have been spending that time researching how Wikipedia RUNS? Which would have been entirely in line with my repeated questions to other editors on how to do things? Is this kind of treatment normal for new editors? AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 00:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC) I would also add. I have made NO edits to the GamerGate controversy article. Intentionally so. I chose to restrict myself to only the talk page, allowing more experienced editors than I to change it. This is Bad Faith at it's worst. AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 00:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC) I also wish to point out highly Uncivil language by JzG. So I am part of a Cult am I? AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 02:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Since this appears to need to be said. Prior to the AE request I had 13 days where I had not even touched the GamerGate Controversy article, and instead had gone to the Oshkosh, Wisconsin article to ask if something was procedural with the intent of changing something on that article if it was not. Let me state this again, I had not TOUCHED the GamerGate Controversy article in 13 days, and had and still HAVE no intention of touching it again. I had only filed the AE request because I thought NbSB was actually violating his topic ban (Turns out, he was not) and I would have done the SAME if it had been someone like TheDevil's Advocate or LoganMac. 173.89.145.97 (talk) 21:52, 16 February 2015 (UTC) @NewYorkBrad I intend to avoid Wikipedia and the GamerGate article in particular until everything blows over (Probably several months... at best) before returning to try to learn Wikipedia on less... insane articles and times. @JZG Stop calling me a sockpuppet. If there is any way to check, please do look at the fact that my IP address is HIGHLY unlikely to be the same as any banned member. I am my own person, your blind hate of "SPAs" and "Socks" not withstanding. I wished to remain civil to you, but you keep throwing around that accusation in direct violation of Wikipedia's policies on Civility, and with no evidence at all beyond what you think. AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 13:00, 17 February 2015 (UTC) @MarkBernstein Previous slights off wiki, I felt I should apologize to someone I may work with, rather than possibly have them find out later. It was professional courtesy, and an acknowledgement I was wrong. I also spent that entire '19 days' doing extensive research on the rules and regulations of Wikipedia. one such thing to cross my path was the notice I was being held to discretionary sanctions, which I then looked up to understand, which lead me to understand AE. The process of FILING an AE request is very thoroughly explained in the form you fill out. This seriously took only about 2 hours research to understand, and I am quite baffled how both you and JzG seem to think this indicates anything,m since anyone who took that 2 hours would understand this quickly. Finally, as to the IP, my IP isn't very 'unique'; in the sense you imply, more "It is unlikely I share an IP with any of them, because I am not a sock". AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 13:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Someone suggested that I offer a self-imposed topic ban on the subject. I am unsure what a proper length would be, but seeing as I have no intention of editing the GamerGate Controversy article to begin with, I would be happy to accept this as an idea. AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 22:22, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by JzGeditI couldn't agree more [re Wikipedia not needing this], but apparently that view is controversial. Guy (Help!) 23:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC) Comment moved from "Result" section below. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 23:29, 12 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Starke HathawayeditMeh. The first diff is an apology, of all things, and exactly the sort of behavior that should be encouraged in a collaborative editing effort, particularly in a contentious subject area. The second diff is a good faith report of editing by a banned user who, technicalities aside, has made it clear they have no intention of staying away from the topic area from which the community, via ArbCom, banned them. Lest we forget, one of the stated rationale for the ArbCom sanctions was to clear out entrenched and combative editors to allow fresher and more collaborative users into the topic area. There is no evidence of disruption here. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 23:36, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Tony SidawayeditYes, this is a pretty obvious Remedy 1.2(ii) candidate under the discretionary sanctions. Bag it and move on. Those of a more charitable disposition may want to try a nudge and then sit and watch what happens before passing a topic ban. The incorrigibly saintly might simply direct the SPA to more productive areas and hope it takes the hint. But don't fool yourselves, admins: Arbcom wants this pestilence (the Gamergate nonsense) gone from Wikipedia and empowers you to do what is necessary. This is not 4chan. --TS 01:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by LizeditMy only comment is being a SPA violates no policy. Most people who start editing on Wikipedia focus on a specific topic. It might raise suspicions but in itself, it is not sanctionable. It's not only tolerable, it's normal. Liz Read! Talk! 02:18, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by starship.painteditThe two diffs do not seem actionable. I don't see rule-breaking. Being an SPA is not an offense as long as an editor abides by Wikipedia's policies. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 07:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by abhilashkrishneditUpon checking, I can't find any wrong in AnsFenrisulfr's actions. First one is an apology and second is an assumption from requester. - abhilashkrishn talk 14:31, 13 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by EChastaineditSeems like a new user who's trying to figure things out. I feel AnsFenrisulfr is a real human being and should be given some help and guidance rather than snuffed out completely so soon per two diffs. Agree with Liz, starship.paint, and abhilashkrishn. EChastain (talk) 02:03, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by BosstophereditAnsFenrisulfr has made a strong effort to improve their behaviour and learn the rules of wikipedia, he has apologized for his mistakes and shown an eagerness to learn. While he may be an SPA who focuses mostly on loci of GG drama, he is the ideal all drama SPAs should aspire for. Nonetheless I agree that he should probably do something other than comment on contentious talk pages, and make some actual contributions to the encyclopedia Bosstopher (talk) 12:27, 17 February 2015 (UTC) @AnsFenrisulfr: Perhaps not wholly related to the issue at hand but as people are discussing varying ways in which you can contribute to wikipedia... May I suggest taking part in the Wikiproject Wikify February Drive. It's nice and boring in a relaxing and cathartic way, and helps improve the thousands of messy articles the wiki has. Serves as a nice break from shouting at people/being shouted at on the Gamergate talk page. Bosstopher (talk) 12:27, 17 February 2015 (UTC) @JzG:Aren't you not meant to write comments in other people's statements? (sorry about the double negative) Is this an IAR thing for convenient reading purposes? Bosstopher (talk) 12:27, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
@MarkBernstein:To be fair Mark, wouldn't anyone be very upset if people accused them of being a sockpuppet? With regards to the IP comment he could just as easily be someone from a very obscure country that supplies very few Wikipedia editors, if I was such a person in such a position I would have made exactly the same comment. And you seem to have misunderstood his first edit (either that or I have). I assume what he's referring to is chatting shit about the "5 horsemen" on reddit. AnsFenri seems to me like someone who's just been reading far more KiA than any person ever should ever read, and has therefore been scared to edit non article space out of fear of an evil cabal that watches every single one of enwiki's 4.7 million articles and auto reverts anyone who isn't Ryulong (this is one of many reasons why no one should ever take anything written on KiA seriously). I just think this is someone who's been far more cautious than they had any reason to be (see his approach to topics which are not GamerGate [75]). He's probably been spectating for a lot longer than he's been editing, and it comes across to me as someone being overly apologetic (and at some times rightfully apologetic) rather than trying to pretend that they have less wiki experience than they actually have.Bosstopher (talk) 13:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by MarkBernsteineditToday, the subject is very upset that anyone would think him a puppet. The subject’s very first edit of all time is an apology to The Red Pen Of Doom for previous slights [[76]]. On 22 January the subject affects to be uncertain how WikiMarkup works; 19 days and less than three dozen edits later, the subject is crafting effective filings on moderately obscure disciplinary pages. The subject points to a highly unique IP address which would, apparently, instantly exculpate him from any suspicion of being a sock; that this is exactly what an expert sockmaster might seek has, of course, not occurred to them. Under the circumstances, this prodigy might anticipate that people of more modest talents may wonder. MarkBernstein (talk) 13:23, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by another usereditResult concerning AnsFenrisulfredit
I don't understand why we spend so much effort and angst over obvious SPAs. This is the encyclopedia anyone can edit, yes. So just topic ban this one and they can still edit any other article of the millions of articles on the encyclopedia. We should not continue to pretend that accounts like these are not here to push their agenda, nor should we continue to allow sensitive and controversial articles to serve as the apprenticeship of novice encyclopedia editors. Gamaliel (talk) 19:54, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
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Steverci
edit| Block as a sockmaster, no AE action needed.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:20, 20 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Steverciedit
The above diffs are from one article, but he does the same on at least another 3 articles that I mentioned below.
Steverci has been edit warring across multiple articles, exhibiting a battleground mentality and making controversial edits without reaching consensus with other editors. Just in recent days, he made multiple reverts, sometimes on the brink of violation of 3RR, on a range of highly sensitive articles, including Khaibalikend Massacre, Shusha massacre, Shusha, Sayat-Nova. Shusha was protected. Steverci was warned by the admins at least 3 times. In addition to the official alert mentioned above, he was warned twice more during the last month: [78] [79] Also, he received warnings from other editors who found his editing inappropriate, for example: [80] [81] Apparently, warnings had no effect, and battleground activity continues, so I believe it makes sense to consider placing this user on an editing restriction. Grandmaster 00:34, 18 February 2015 (UTC) While I agree that Parishan could have used a better judgment, in this case I think he was baited into an edit war by Steverci. Parishan is a long-standing editor with tens of thousands of useful contribs, while Steverci is the one who starts an edit war on almost every page he moves on to. So many warnings within a short period of time speak for themselves. Grandmaster 08:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC) Some diffs to demonstrate an editing pattern: Douglas Frantz: inappropriate content restored 3 times, despite objections of another editor: [82] [83] [84] Khaibalikend Massacre: inappropriate category restored 4 times, despite objections of another editor: [85] [86] [87] [88] Shusha massacre: inappropriate category restored 4 times, despite objections of other editors: [89] [90] [91] [92] There are might be more, but I did not know this user before I encountered him in the article about Shusha. Grandmaster 23:49, 19 February 2015 (UTC) Another example of tendentious editing, this time on Armenian diaspora. 2 rvs removing sourced info without any edit summary: [93] [94], then another one followed by a comment at talk: [95] Apparently, Steverci believed that the number of Armenians living in Azerbaijan was lower than the sources suggested, so he simply removed the sources with higher estimates. When another editor objected and asked to provide reliable sources, Steverci initially failed to do that, see discussion at talk: [96] But then someone suggested a different estimate in the book by Thomas de Waal, and as that source was accepted as reliable, Steverci removed the sources with higher estimates, and inserted de Waal stating that the number of Armenians living in Azerbaijan was 5,000. [97] I checked the source, and it actually says: There were somewhere between five and twenty thousand of them in the city, almost all women married to Azerbaijani husbands. As one can see, the source provides a range of 5000-20000, of which Steverci only picks the lower estimate, thus misrepresenting and misquoting the source. This is clearly not in line with WP:Cherry, and is in fact tendentious editing in order to advance a point. Grandmaster 15:03, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning StevercieditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by uninvolved FreeRangeFrogedit(note: I am uninvolved in the reason for this AE request). My perception of Steverci is that he has arrived in Wikipedia to very clearly push a WP:POV, ignoring our policies and guidelines in the process. Evidence of this can be seen currently at the bottom of my talk page, which involves his slow edit warring and contentious editing of Douglas Frantz, a bio about a journalist that he decided to turn into a case study in what Steverci claims is "Armenian Genocide denial" where the reliable sources in the supposed controversy simply don't support that level of detail (unless of course Armenian-centric sources are conveniently used). Issues of WP:OR, synthesis and weight notwithstanding. Steverci first came to my attention because his sandbox (sorry, admins only) was reported to BLPN and subsequently taken to MFD. Reading that article about a film turned into yet another soapbox essay about what he and his favored sources claim is "genocide denial" should provide a sense of the editor's troubling biases. Which would be OK if they were limited to his sandbox, but now they've spilled out to a BLP. This latest issue should not be seen as an isolated incident, but rather as a pattern that will continue to repeat itself. That entire pattern should be taken into account when deciding on an arbitration enforcement outcome. My recommendation would be to flat-out topic-restrict Steverci from any Armenian-related topics or material, broadly construed, before more damage is caused and more time is wasted. My interaction with them leaves me no doubt that this will end just as badly as many others have ended up when they arrived here to tell us the "truth" about a topic they're emotionally invested in. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 23:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by StevercieditI never violated the three revert rule or any rule for that matter, yet somehow Grandmaster felt the need to warn me instead and not mention that Parishan has actually violated the three revert rule: According to WP:3RR, violating the rule guarantees a block. It is also interesting that he is accusing me of edit warring on the Khaibalikend Massacre, Shusha massacre, and Shusha articles, yet it was Parishan who began each edit war: [103] [104] [105]. If someone stalking and reverting my edits, sometimes without explanation, they are the one who is exhibiting more battleground mentality. I have never had the be blocked or banned for anything before and have always tried my hardest avoid an edit war. I am currently having a lengthy disagreement on the Tiridates I of Armenia article, and have allowed the user to keep his version in the mean time. When a new user aggressively removed all the content I added to the Alexander Suvorov article several times, I reported the incident instead of playing the edit warring game. When I had wanted to remove clear POV unsourced controversial content on Persecution of Ottoman Muslims, I took it to the talk page and waited for a complete consensus before removing it again. The other day I disagreed with an addition to Armenian Apostolic Church and went straight to the talk page. Grandmaster claims I do not listen to warnings, but I've always ceased what I was doing both times I received them (one was over a misunderstanding) even when I felt the admin was being unfair. An example of someone who does not know how to heed warnings would be someone who has broken the same rule over and over. Parishan has previously been blocked for violating the 3RR not once, but twice. Grandmaster has been blocked for violating the 3RR rule SIX TIMES. If anyone should be given enforcement here, it is Parishan. --Steverci (talk) 03:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by NinetoyadomeeditSteverci has made numerous contributions and I feel like he was drawn into the edit warring by Parishan, who has been banned on a number of occasions for doing just that and apparently has not learned. Parishan has been pushing his POV on Armenian related articles and Steverci has been undoing his/her biased changes. A warning, in my opinion, should be sufficient to Steverci. Ninetoyadome (talk) 04:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC) Result concerning Steverciedit
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Edit war at Anita Sarkeesian
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This merits attention. It's a BLP covered by the Gamergate arbitration case and there should be no edit wars at all in that topic at this stage.
Please fix this. You were given the tools at WP:ARBGG. --TS 01:53, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- As I read this, the issue here is primarily with User:Theduinoelegy, who was informed as to the existence of discretionary sanctions a week ago. Does anyone see any reason for us not to sanction as requested? NW (Talk) 03:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Clearly deserves sanctioning. Dreadstar ☥ 04:02, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've imposed a 90 day topic ban. [106]. Please let me know if anyone disagrees with the ban or the length. Dreadstar ☥ 04:30, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm OK with this. NW (Talk) 04:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)