Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 December 18

Recent AfDs: Today Yesterday

Media Organisations Biography Society Web Games Science Arts Places Indiscern. Not-Sorted

< December 17	December 19 >

Guide to deletion

Purge server cache

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to List of James Bond villains#Villainous organisations. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Union (James Bond)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Most of this article isn't cited to reliable secondary sources to meet WP:SIGCOV. Aside from sources showing discussing the bond-inspired spy thriller The Union (2024 film), WP:BEFORE did not uncover anything that isn't already mentioned at other related articles. Jontesta (talk) 23:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Jontesta (talk) 23:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect. Even if this was notable (unlikely), the current lack of independent references mean this is all just plot summary/OR, ripe for WP:TNT. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:39, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect per Piotrus. This is mostly WP:OR and is missing independent references to pass WP:GNG. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:40, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of James Bond villains#Villainous organisations, where the organization is listed. No indication of notability per the other voters. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:03, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of James Bond villains#Villainous organisations would be the best choice here. TH1980 (talk) 03:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

André Larivière

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG looked on french article and the sources are not independent. Google search shows decent self published stuff so not independent sources Czarking0 (talk) 22:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Canada. Czarking0 (talk) 22:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ How are the sources not independent? We have the Spiegel Online, United Press International here, and Libération, Le Midi libre, Le Télégramme, Sud-Ouest, La Montagne (x2), Le Dauphiné libéré. So we have 9 references from 8 different sources. Yann (talk) 09:51, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are only two sources on the article. Are you referring to things not in the article? Czarking0 (talk) 19:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You mention above the French article, so I did look at it. References there can be added here. Yann (talk) 20:32, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The French article doesn't contain any better sources that would improve retainability at all, as I explain below. Bearcat (talk) 16:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This isn't based on coverage about André Larivière — it's based on sources that glancingly namecheck André Larivière in the process of being about something else, which is not support for notability. We're not looking for sources that mention his name as proof that he exists, we're looking for sources that are about him as proof that his work has garnered independent third party analysis of its significance and impact. But the French article is based on one source that again just namechecks André Larivière without being about him in any substantive sense and one unreliable source that isn't support for notability at all, which means it doesn't have any sourcing that would actually change the equation here either. It isn't enough that sources can be found with his name present in them — a source has to be about him, not just passingly mention his name, to constitute support for notability. Bearcat (talk) 16:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for this detailed assessment. I striked my support. Yann (talk) 12:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:10, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jaime Franklin

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No indepth coverage from reliable third party sources. GRuban (talk) 21:30, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let me rephrase, since it didn't seem to be clear. Not just no indepth coverage in the article; none to be found. I did look. --GRuban (talk) 12:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness and Bodybuilding. GRuban (talk) 21:30, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of West Virginia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This may need attention from people with more knowledge of bodybuilding competition. This person does show up on sites about competitive bodybuilding—a news hit appears to verify her placement in 2003 and 2004 "Figure Olympia" competitions, though in this article they are listed as "Arnold Figure". Her name also appeared on other sites related to bodybuilding, though I did not investigate them thoroughly. I did not find any book hits, but I was not certain of the best search formula, and may have missed something.

Although my search results were minimal, I am also concerned that the nominator said nothing about attempting to find reliable searches before nominating the article for deletion, which is expected by WP:BEFORE. Since at least some sources are out there, and local news is not always easy to find, I would like to know that someone with more expertise in the subject has tried to find material that could be cited here. P Aculeius (talk) 11:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that could have been ambiguous so I clarified above. I did try, and while I'm no expert in the subject, I have been here for 15 years so consider myself reasonably good at finding sources in general. But if someone can find sources that I didn't, I would be only too happy; I far prefer improving articles to deleting them. --GRuban (talk) 12:45, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that. Since all I found was a handful of mentions on bodybuilding sites, with nothing particularly substantial, I'll just leave that if it helps anyone who knows where else to look before this article is deleted. Obviously, if the article is deleted first, there would be no objection to recreating it if adequate coverage to demonstrate notability turns up later. P Aculeius (talk) 13:26, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No valid secondary sources to prove WP:GNG.TitCrisse (talk) 02:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Hélder (footballer, born 1971)#Personal life. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flávio Cristóvão

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

27 years old and his only professional appearance was 13 minutes in the League Cup for Wolves five years ago. Went on to very low levels of football in Cyprus, Portugal and Austria Sources on page are mostly primary or the match report in general of the one game he played. Clearly, in 13 minutes, there's little he did that warrants wider coverage than the mere fact he signed for Wolves. He makes a listicle in the local media of Wolves youngsters who didn't crack it, [1], but I'm not sure that gives him Sonny Pike levels of notoriety for not making it. Could possibly be redirected to a list of Wolves players (his one achievement), or the personal life section on his dad's page. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:56, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Austria-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cyprus-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – The match report is just a passing mention, not about him in independent detail. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:37, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I just discovered that he is the son of Hélder (footballer, born 1971). I would be fine for a redirect to his father's personal life section per WP:NOTINHERITED. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 21:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:25, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Links #3 & #4 are dead. No valid secondary sourcing to prove WP:GNG. TitCrisse (talk) 02:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Code page 3846

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout. HyperAccelerated (talk) 05:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language and Computing. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:32, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTDICT is not relevant, these articles are about concepts, not words or phrases. The first sentence is a definition, the rest, including the character set, is a description. It's possible that some are not notable, but an alternative would be to redirect to Code page. Peter James (talk) 14:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're misunderstanding. We need sources that let us expand beyond the what's currently in the article, which is effectively "this is a code page and this is a copy-paste of its contents." I can't find any reliable secondary sources that would allow us to do that.

I'm not claiming that "Code page 3846" shows up in the Oxford English Dictionary. This distinction between "concepts" and "words or phrases" or between "definitions" and "descriptions" misses the forest for the trees. Maybe I should have cited WP: HOWTO instead, but no matter which policy we use, the argument is the same as nearly any other AfD: the sourcing needs to be improved, or this article should be deleted. HyperAccelerated (talk) 16:15, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Merge with Code page 857 (if kept) or~~ transwiki. Alexlatham96 (talk) 18:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. – The Grid (talk) 19:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Code page or perhaps to another article aggregating all minor code pages. I agree that this page in isolation probably fails the spirit of WP: NOTDICT but all minor code pages together have higher information density and will be a fitting encyclopedic reference, akin to List of Nvidia graphics processing units. Davemc0 (talk) 16:50, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any thoughts on the proposal to merge somewhere?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Code page. I agree with above. I see no reason why information about this code page couldn't be added into the main article. As it stands, I don't think 3846 is WP:NOTABLE enough to warrant its own article, but I think a merge could work quite well as there is information that would be valuable to an encyclopedia. Beachweak (talk) 10:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: undo close and procedural relist per request to consider transwiki alongside Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Code page 668 bundled close
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar 20:55, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Transwiki per the bundled close rationale at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Code page 668. This article is part of the same group. Courtesy ping @Davemc0 and Beachweak for alternative to merger. czar 11:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am fine with a transwiki operation. HyperAccelerated (talk) 14:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Aurelio Voltaire. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:12, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BiTrektual

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NALBUM DonaldD23 talk to me 20:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Albums and songs, Music, Cuba, and United States of America. DonaldD23 talk to me 20:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Aurelio Voltaire: found no reliable coverage. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 21:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DELETE. Zero sourcing. Does not meet WP:GNG.TitCrisse (talk) 04:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Aurelio Voltaire. Searching yields no independent, reliable coverage. Waddles 🗩 🖉 16:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That the album got a Star Trek actor, Robert Ricardo, to perform on it makes the album noteworthy and therefore its page should not be deleted from Wikipedia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnlogic (talk • contribs)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Aurelio Voltaire. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hate Lives in a Small Town

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NALBUM DonaldD23 talk to me 20:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Cuba, and United States of America. DonaldD23 talk to me 20:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:43, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Aurelio Voltaire. Searching yields no independent, reliable coverage. Waddles 🗩 🖉 16:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:14, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nuno Carvalho

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Same birthplace, surname and country of work as Ricardo Carvalho, but with drastically different career. Entire professional career was 34 minutes in second division, in two substitute appearances. [2] This source here as part of a list of signings in a local source says that he was an international for Andorra, but this is not supported by any database (playing for Andorra is an absurdly low benchmark in international football and he doesn't seem to have crossed it). [3] The search "Nuno Carvalho Lleida" doesn't even produce any sources about his brief professional career, just a forum post quoting a news story about his contract. [4] Player passed the defunct WP:NFOOTY but not WP:GNG Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:28, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This comes up, but I don't know if it's the same person [5]. It appears to be an interview anyway, so not really helpful for notability. I don't find enough sourcing to build an article. Oaktree b (talk) 20:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi, the name is very common in Portugal. This appears to be a completely different person as the interview suggests it's about a handball player. It also gives a place of birth as Paramos, Espinho, which is not the place of birth on the Wikipedia article. Unknown Temptation (talk) 21:45, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Portugal. Shellwood (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 21:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:25, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:15, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Caleigh Peters

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Does not meet notability for musicians, or actresses. No coverage at all. No reliable sources. The article would never have passed the creation discussion if there was one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moondust534 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The nomination templates are wonky and it won't accept my comments using Twinkle... I dont' see notability, and this is the only source found [6]. Not quite at notability. Oaktree b (talk) 20:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
seems to have been because it was unsigned consarn _{(formerly cogsan)} 20:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and California. Shellwood (talk) 20:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
comment The AfD template on the article was wrong; I replaced it using a sample from another article so that it at least links from the article to this nomination page but the timestamp might not be accurate. (The example I pasted had 5 numbers for time, I didn't know what to do with that.) Schazjmd (talk) 21:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, or redirect to Jon Peters. There just isn't the significant coverage to support a stand-alone article, not via WP:NSINGER or WP:ANYBIO. Closest I found was a 1994 newspaper article, which had several paragraphs on Caleigh, but was mostly about Barbra.[7] Schazjmd (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is a glorified CV. No secondary sourcing to prove WP:GNG.TitCrisse (talk) 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 19:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

K Prakash Shetty

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable businessman fails WP:NBIO, WP:GNG, likely WP:PROMO. The sourcing is primarily WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS and/or unbylined articles from WP:NEWSORGINDIA sources. He ran unsuccessfully for India's upper house of parliament, which turned up results in the WP:BEFORE search, but consensus is that unsuccessful candidates do not qualify as notable based on routine campaign coverage. He also fails WP:ANYBIO #1, as the Rajyotsava Prashasti is given to several dozen people annually and is not likely to be the kind of award like a Nobel or Oscar that makes someone instantly notable. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Travel and tourism, and Karnataka. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I am unable to find evidence of meeting GNG or other applicable guideline. There are also NOTPROMO issues here; the creator is blocked for UPE. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:50, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:20, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of pre-nominal letters (Sweden)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No sign of Notability. ––kemel49^{(connect)(contri)} 16:42, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. ––kemel49^{(connect)(contri)} 16:42, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:46, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I created this page by copying entries from Lists of post-nominal letters#Sweden where they were cluttering a list of lists. Other lists of post-nominal letters are deemed notable, and this page is essentially no different from any of them. To quote essay Wikipedia:When to use or avoid "other stuff exists" arguments: "the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes". The page does require improvement though. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. For one, I don't think these "titles" are ever used when referring to a person's name in Sweden. Furthermore it is not really encyclopedic information – it is rather a key to reading old biographical dictionaries where these abbreviations are used (for conciseness). The page therefore fails the policy WP:NOT, specifically WP:NOTHOW. Geschichte (talk) 20:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:15, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. We're not a key to every way that one country lists honors. If this were a list of ranks in the military or parliament, it would make sense, but this doesn't. Bearian (talk) 03:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now. Mostly a procedural keep, since I believe that all similar articles should be considered at the same time. Sjö (talk) 08:57, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there is currently no consensus here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I believe they should not be nominated together, because they are different phenomena. British post-nominal letters, for instance, are often used when referring to a person, whereas the Swedish letters in question are not commonly used (outside of encyclopedias and genealogies). Geschichte (talk) 08:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bengaluru City Police

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Filled with primary sources and fluff. A few secondary sources go to dead links. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 19:48, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Like the Karnataka Police, this may be a case of presumed notability where the article needs massive work but the subject is notable given this police force covers a city of 8M+ people. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 20:17, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Police and Karnataka. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:23, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Only because of the size of the force, but right now it needs a major update and neutralization going from the article body saying the force's required cell phone is a Blackberry; most of the sources are PRIMARY as-is. Nate • (chatter) 23:55, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: Can this be merged with its parent page Karnataka Police, much of the content (especially Insignia) seems redundant. Some of the content or references need over-haul or could be specific to State police at hand. For example Template:Indian Police Service Officer Ranks used at this page derives references from Maharashtra Police, Kerala Police or Odisha Police sources Nisingh.8 (talk) 10:10, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Rammstein#Tours. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rammstein Festival Tour 2017

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NTOUR, article relies on primary sources. मल्ल (talk) 18:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and Events. मल्ल (talk) 18:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per WP:NTOUR. HorrorLover555 (talk) 20:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rammstein#Tours would be an appropriate redirect target. मल्ल (talk) 19:00, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is support for a Redirect and also because no Redirect target article was identified here. Please always do with with Merge and Redirect arguments in the future.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:11, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sirous Ahmadi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

2 google news hits and nothing in Google Books. Does not meet WP:BIO or WP:AUTHOR. Being an immigration consultant hardly adds to notability. LibStar (talk) 17:56, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Businesspeople, Sportspeople, Iran, and Australia. LibStar (talk) 17:56, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:AUTHOR. Herinalian (talk) 19:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He passes GNG because of significant coverage by different sources. Also he was a member of Iran national canoeing team (IRNA) and won the third place in Asian Canoeing Championships in 2004.(IRNA). Ali Pirhayati (talk) 10:42, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both the sources you have supplied are 1 line mentions and do not meet WP:SIGCOV. I don't see him meeting WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 10:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added the sources for his canoeing to the page. His record-setting has been covered by several media as well. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 10:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have you declared your connection to him? duffbeerforme (talk) 00:03, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not have any connection to him. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 07:25, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That photo you took of him? How then did that come about? duffbeerforme (talk) 07:44, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very good question, duffbeer. Please answer the question. There's a potential conflict of interest here. LibStar (talk) 08:20, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the pictures of hundreds of people to Wikipedia; do I have a connection to all of them!? Sometimes I try to access copyright-free pictures of the subjects for whom I created a page through emailing them. In this case too, long after I created his page, I received a copyright-free picture. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 08:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So are you now saying that you lied about taking it? And that your are not, as you claimed, the copyright holder? duffbeerforme (talk) 08:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm the copyright-holder, like this one and many others. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 11:53, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you're the copyright holder of a copyright free image that you created yourself and was supplied to you by someone you have no connection to. Makes sense. duffbeerforme (talk) 00:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails notability. specially that part about being a member of Iran canoeing team. he was just a member but never won anything major. the page creator claims he won a medal at the Asian Canoeing Championship and provides a source for that. but that's not correct. the source says it was the Central/West Asian Championship not the main Asian Canoeing Championships. Sports2021 (talk) 03:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep He meets significant references and coverage so he meets GNG, even though he wrote books and is a businessman. 190.219.101.225 (talk) 04:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note The above anon IP has been blocked for block evasion. LibStar (talk) 12:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I see a concerted effort by the subject to try to create publicity for himself, but little or none of it meets our standards. (I discovered this AfD from Commons, where File:Sirous Ahmadi.jpg is up for deletion as a copyvio.) The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 05:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 17:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carlton Wilborn

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No indication of WP:SUSTAINED notability here. Amigao (talk) 17:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Dance, Music, Television, Video games, and Illinois. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - all unreliable sources. I like to read gossip as much as the person, but we have never published original material. Bearian (talk) 05:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Wilborn's prominence and recognition is solely as Madonna's dancer, and not enough WP:NOTABILITY by himself. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 13:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No valid secondary sourcing to prove WP:GNG.TitCrisse (talk) 03:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The sourcing is mostly unreliable and one can't be notable by association.Ynsfial (talk) 14:57, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to List of Illinois tornadoes. ^Complex/_Rational 17:23, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Southern Illinois tornado history

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:NOTDATABASE. E_F⁵ 16:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists and Illinois. E_F⁵ 16:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Illinois tornadoes. This is a list, not an article on tornado history in southern Illinois. I'm interested in expanding the tornado history of Northern Illinois, which I find much more interesting, but this is better done creating standalone articles including on individual tornadoes, outbreaks, and "Tornadoes of YYYY" expansions. Departure– (talk) 16:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and Environment. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Illinois tornadoes. Azuredivay (talk) 13:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Austin City Council. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:27, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Austin City Council District 2

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Individual city council districts like this aren't usually notable, perhaps a merge to the main article on the Austin City Council would be suitable, a discussion on the Austin City Council District 1 ended with consensus to merge. -Samoht27 (talk) 15:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, United States of America, and Texas. -Samoht27 (talk) 15:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect all of these need to be merged and redirected. SportingFlyer T·C 21:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Austin City Council and merge viable content. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Austin City Council District 10

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Individual city council districts aren't usually notable. Feels WP:MILL. -Samoht27 (talk) 15:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, United States of America, and Texas. -Samoht27 (talk) 15:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to Austin City Council, as well as the other districts, same as the result of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Austin City Council District 1. The main article can tabulate past members like Seattle City Council#Recent councilmembers rather than in individual pages for non-notable districts. Reywas92^Talk 16:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect and if there are others, bundle them all together - they clearly all need to be merged/redirected. SportingFlyer T·C 21:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens#Nestene. Daniel (talk) 19:26, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Auton

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

The Autons don't appear to have standalone notability from the parent series. The current sources used in the article, and the bulk of SIGCOV, are from unreliable sources like Looper and Doctor Who TV. The bulk of coverage I could find via searching was primarily from reviews, which do not indicate notability individual of their parent episodes, and unreliable sources like WhatCulture. Additionally, the House of Lords statement, while relevant, is only part of their wider statement on Terror of the Autons, which is what actually caused the discussion in the first place. The Autons were only discussed as an aspect of the episode that was scary, with other aspects of the episode being discussed in equal measure. This whole statement confers notability to Terror of the Autons, not the Autons themselves, as notability is not inherited from the parent subject here.

A search through News turned up one SyFy hit, but this boiled down to a brief plot summary with a declaration of "These guys are scary", which is nowhere near significant coverage. https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/chosen-one-of-the-day-autons-in-doctor-who A search through Books and Scholar yielded nothing, though admittedly the results were muddied by concepts of autonomy and people with the name of Auton, even with specifiers like "Doctor Who." The coverage here is minimal and very little SIGCOV exists, and what info on their development we have is better covered as part of a wider article. An AtD to the "Nestene" section of List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens would suffice, as the Nestenes are the creatures who created the Autons, and the Autons serve basically as their lackeys, and are closely related enough in-universe to where they should be covered together. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 15:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and United Kingdom. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 15:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to the Nestene section of the AtD- especially the reception section. Does not meet the criteria for a separate article, but should exist somewhere. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 16:37, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Pokelego999. The source analysis shows this article cannot be improved to pass WP:SIGCOV. I am neutral on a redirect target. Jontesta (talk) 00:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens#Nestene as AtD. Not sure if this might not be notable after all. Aside from SyFy, the why the Autons are effectively scary from the A.V. Club article is actually still missing: "achieve real terror because they're a slight but sinister variation on the everyday—a small step away from normal". And there is this parlamentary debate. But a merge seems like a reasonable compromise. Daranios (talk) 15:09, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Milaf Cola

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

There is nothing to indicate that the subject is notable. This is a brazen advertisement for a 1 week-old (!) cola brand produced by the Saudi government. The sources are all garbage and they all read like sponsored content. Thenightaway (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Saudi Arabia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Products-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Very much PROMO. Reads like PR items, none of which are in RS. Could be a one liner in the Public Investment Fund article, perhaps... Oaktree b (talk) 16:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Also noting [8] and [9] Drew Stanley (talk) 19:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I'd agree it's promo except for...being well-sourced and meeting GNG. A new and, more importantly, an apparently unique and sugar-free cola. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

7 out of 9 sources are literally the exact same content plastered across seven different websites (the two remaining sources are government propaganda outlets), which is a strong indicator that this is sponsored content (not to mention that the stories are written like press releases). It's almost as if the creator of this article is intentionally trying to deceive us that it's notable. Thenightaway (talk) 13:37, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe. But wouldn't the newspapers be reputable sources? The Times of India, etc. In any case, this does seem a unique drink and I'd be tempted to take a sip (have had only one soft drink since 1988, used to inhale them like, ah and duh, water). Randy Kryn (talk) 13:45, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Times of India has a track record of undisclosed paid stories and even stories written by AI. This[10] is not what a newspaper article looks like. It is almost surely sponsored content. Thenightaway (talk) 14:04, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly. But if it is accurate that it is the world's first date-based cola that seems notable (and may even pass the RFK Jr. test in the States). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:26, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would not take the Saudi government's word on the novelty of their own product. Thenightaway (talk) 14:40, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep WP:GNG is passable., This is probably because it is a new product that was launched recently, so it feels like a promotion. It is the first cola drink in the world to be produced from the Date fruit, and it has a notability, it is a government-made product, and many sources prove this. Spworld2 (talk) 14:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Being "the first [anything]" is not a notability criterion, neither is being "government-made". Whether or not "it has notability" is what this discussion is here to determine. But being newly-launched, the odds for that are not great. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the sources are just product launch publicity / churnalism, and confer no notability of any flavour. Purely promotional. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've read the articles, or as much as I can with the pop-up ads, and each uses different language, are varied in what they report and emphasize, and many come from reputable newspapers and magazines. Product publicity based on promotion of a new product is not unusual - that's how much of the news industry works, reporters finding out about something from press releases. Cola's were invented in 1886, and that the first to use date extracts has emerged 138 years later has attracted press doesn't seem unusual but normal coverage of a new concept. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have to push back on your media literacy. These are not reputable newspapers and magazines, and the content of the "stories" is embarrassing and brazenly promotional. There's also absolutely nothing to indicate that this product is novel. It defies common sense that nobody in the world has included a popular fruit in a soda drink. The first result that pops up when you google date cola is a pre-existing product[11]. The bare minimum research of just googling "date cola" was apparently beyond these "reputable newspapers and magazines". Thenightaway (talk) 11:46, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You claim that The Economic Times, The Times of India, The Siasat Daily, Khaleej Times, and Yahoo News are not reputable newspapers and news sites. Does Wikipedia, which has articles on each one, share your view? Does everyone who cites information from these newspapers and sites lack media literacy? This soda is claimed to be the first to use dates as its primary ingredient and flavoring. Since Wikipedia doesn't do journalism, but reports on what sources say, has this been refuted by articles on the cola that you link to, which, yes, includes dates as a major ingredient, which may require a change in the article's language if a source is found. Regardless of the existence of this other cola, the accumulated coverage for Milaf Cola meets GNG. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:SIGCOV requires coverage in reliable sources that is intellectually independent of its subject. The fact that the various media sources are reproducing the same text is clear evidence that they are reproducing a press release, and their coverage is therefore not intellectually independent. These newspapers - at least those I am familiar with - are often usable as Wikipedia sources, but not always. See for instance our RSP entry about the Times of India, and the linked discussions, which show that TOI sometimes publishes sponsored content, without necessarily flagging it as such. Those sources need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and there is clear evidence in this case that they are not appropriate. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:56, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Boyd's Eurobin Hotel

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG and WP:NHIST due to lack of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Relies on local accounts and primary materials, with no in-depth analysis, making it non-notable per WP:RS. Primarily of regional interest without broader historical significance. Nxcrypto Message 11:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and Australia. Nxcrypto Message 11:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Travel and tourism-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Wikipedia Editors,

Thank you for reviewing the page for Boyd's Eurobin Hotel. I would like to provide additional context and justification for why this page should remain on Wikipedia. Below are several points addressing the concerns cited in the deletion proposal:

1. Historical Significance to the Region

Boyd's Eurobin Hotel is historically significant as one of the key social and logistical hubs in northeastern Victoria during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It served as:

A halfway stop for travellers between the important regional centres of Myrtleford and Bright, contributing to the region’s transportation and economic development during the coaching era.

A gathering place for political events, community meetings, and significant public addresses, as documented in multiple historical articles from the Ovens and Murray Advertiser.

While the hotel itself no longer exists, its historical role provides insights into the development of regional Victoria during a formative period, which aligns with the purpose of Wikipedia to preserve knowledge, particularly for places that have evolved significantly or no longer exist in their original form.

2. Reliable Sources and References

The article is based entirely on reliable, independent secondary sources, specifically reputable newspapers from the time such as:

The Ovens and Murray Advertiser, a well-regarded regional publication that extensively documented events, businesses, and social life in the area.

The Yackandandah Times and The Age, providing corroborating accounts of the hotel's role in the local economy and its broader community impact.

These are historical records, which, by their nature, provide the most comprehensive and legitimate sources of information about a hotel from the 19th century. Dismissing these sources as merely "local accounts" underestimates their value as the principal historical records of the time.

3. Importance of Preserving Regional History

The page contributes to the documentation of Victoria’s regional history, complementing related pages on Eurobin, St. Clement's Church Eurobin, and the Eurobin Presbyterian Church. Together, these articles create a cohesive narrative about a once-thriving hamlet. Removing this page would leave a significant gap in understanding Eurobin’s history.

Wikipedia is often the first and only resource for regional and niche history. Deleting this page would undermine the platform’s role as a repository for diverse historical content, especially for subjects that are less well-known but still meaningful to specific regions or communities.

4. Meets Wikipedia’s Notability Guidelines for History

The article satisfies WP:NHIST by:

Establishing the hotel’s role in regional historical events, such as being a venue for political campaigns, community gatherings, and a recovery site for injured travellers.

Providing multiple, independent sources that verify the hotel's importance in its historical context.

While the subject might not have broad national or global appeal, Wikipedia policies allow for regional notability. Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel represents a significant chapter in the development of northeastern Victoria, a region rich in history but underrepresented on the platform.

5. Broader Educational Value

The page serves as an example of how small, local institutions contributed to the larger social and economic fabric of Australia during the 19th century. It adds depth to the broader historical understanding of transportation, community hubs, and rural development in Victoria.

Conclusion

I respectfully request that the page be retained, as it:

Is thoroughly referenced with reliable secondary sources.

Provides significant historical value to the Eurobin area and northeastern Victoria.

Contributes to a richer understanding of Australia’s regional history.

I am happy to address any specific points of concern and welcome suggestions for improving the page further to meet Wikipedia’s standards.

Sincerely,

blackcatsx Blackcatsx (talk) 14:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your response appears to be Al-generated. Nxcrypto Message 02:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First, are any of the sources used available online and if so can you please link them? It's unclear if any of this news coverage is substantial coverage. One of the sources is "Found: A young boar pig" and another is just "Accident", so these seem to be local news briefs, not deeper substance. If the hotel is historically significant to warrant an article, I would expect retrospective histories to provide coverage, not only contemporary news articles. You say this region is "underrepresented on the platform", but it appears that's because it's underrepresented in history books, and WP:PRIMARY sources are insufficient for an article here. To be clear, being "a recovery site for injured travellers" or a venue for "community gatherings" is not a basis for notability, there are a billion such places. You say "venue for political campaigns" with plural, yet only a single event by a non-notable candidate is mentioned – There's a lot of candidates who go a lot of places but that doesn't make them notable! The owner being a secretary for a church either – not necessarily an "integral role" for even the community, much less the "region", as claimed – is irrelevant to the hotel's claim to notability, especially if only being your claim based on his archived letters rather than a historian saying so. "The property is often mentioned in the context of the town's historical significance" really couches the fact that the town generally is what's notable, not a hotel there – Eurobin#History would be a better place for this. "The establishment was a hub of activity, reflecting its importance within the Eurobin community" is not sourced. "A recurring theme in historical records" would be WP:Original research – you reviewed the records, not a historian in a published source. Besides that this section has just one source that doesn't support "recurring" or "articles", why would anyone now care that the hotel had an employee who did her job? "Its role as a community hub, coaching stop, and post office has left an indelible mark on the history of Eurobin." If it's so indelible, why aren't there any more modern sources that say so? "Today, Boyd's Eurobin Hotel exists only in historical records and memories." I think anyone with memories of it is dead now. Reywas92^Talk 15:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I read every source and not a single one of them is more than the barest passing mention. All are brief news blurbs about local goings-on, none provide the slightest amount of depth about the hotel. None allow you to make conclusions that it was a historically significant place – rather, just a place that existed in the past, nothing more than a generic business in a small town, undistinguished from any other hotel. The AI-generated wording below of "highlight", "provides insight", "underscores", and even "details" are all exaggerations. Today's additions are even worse: "This integration of hospitality and postal services highlights the hotel's broader contribution beyond providing accommodation, acting as a key logistical and social hub for the surrounding area during an era when reliable postal services and coaching stops were vital lifelines for rural communities." "Boyd's hospitality ensured that such incidents were handled with care." Post offices are not notable (every town has one, often in a general store or inn), and the AI-written conclusions like being a "logistical hub" are absurd. Reywas92^Talk 15:49, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The equivalent of a telephone book listing [12] is about all I found for sourcing. Based on the long explanation above, this could potentially be notable, but we need sourcing with links to the documents if possible. I just don't see notability at this time. Oaktree b (talk) 16:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your detailed feedback regarding the article on Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel. I have carefully reviewed your comments and have made several updates to the article to address the issues raised. Below are my responses to the specific points mentioned:

1. Availability and Credibility of Sources

All references now include direct links to digitised articles from the National Library of Australia’s Trove database. These sources are archived and verifiable primary accounts from reputable publications such as the Ovens and Murray Advertiser and The Age. While they may be contemporary, they offer detailed and factual accounts of the hotel's significance during its operational years. These sources are widely recognised as credible in documenting regional history.

2. Significance of the Hotel

The hotel was not simply a "recovery site" or a venue for "community gatherings." Its role as a halfway house on a major coaching route between Myrtleford and Bright made it an integral part of regional transportation and commerce in the late 19th century.

The site was significant enough to remain a known landmark after its closure, as demonstrated by its use as a turning point in the 1898 Federal Cycling Club road race. This reflects its continued relevance to the community even after ceasing operations.

3. Historical Context

It is essential to preserve records of local establishments like Boyd’s Hotel as part of a broader effort to document regional history. Many small towns and hamlets, such as Eurobin, played vital roles in shaping the rural economy and culture of Victoria. Articles like this help ensure that these contributions are not forgotten.

The lack of retrospective histories on the hotel does not diminish its historical significance. Instead, it highlights the need to preserve primary records to prevent erasure of smaller, regionally significant sites.

4. Community and Cultural Impact

John Boyd’s dual role as hotel proprietor and community leader (e.g., secretary of the Presbyterian Church) underscores the interconnected nature of rural establishments and their communities. The hotel was more than a business; it was a hub for social, political, and religious activities. The records of his contributions provide a valuable lens into Eurobin’s societal structure during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

The hotel’s association with the post office further cements its role as a focal point of regional connectivity and communication.

5. Claims of Notability

The article does not rely on claims of "indelible marks" or "recurring themes" without evidence. These phrases have been adjusted or removed to align with Wikipedia's standards.

While the candidate Richard Warren may not have been notable, the mention of his campaign stop illustrates the hotel's importance as a gathering place during its time.

The article does not assert that individual roles (e.g., "Maid of the Inn") are historically significant on their own. Instead, these anecdotes enrich the narrative by providing a glimpse into daily life at the hotel, which adds depth and context.

6. Broader Historical Significance

The town of Eurobin is underrepresented on Wikipedia, and documenting sites like Boyd’s Hotel contributes to the historical tapestry of the region. While it may not hold national or international significance, its role in regional history makes it a valuable addition to the platform. Wikipedia is not solely a repository for globally significant subjects; it is also a place to preserve local and cultural histories that might otherwise be lost.

7. Modern Sources

You raise a valid point regarding the lack of retrospective analysis. However, this is precisely why articles like this are crucial. Without documentation, small yet significant historical sites risk fading into obscurity. Inclusion on Wikipedia can encourage further research and scholarship on such topics.

Conclusion I believe the article now meets Wikipedia’s guidelines for notability, with all sources properly cited and linked. Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel played an essential role in its community, and preserving its history aligns with Wikipedia's mission to provide a comprehensive and inclusive record of human knowledge. I kindly request that the updated version of the article be considered before a final decision is made.

Thank you for your time and for the opportunity to improve this entry.

Sincerely,

Blackcatsx Blackcatsx (talk) 02:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding "Thank you for your time". A bigger token of respect towards our time would be to not use AI to write very long-winded replies. Is that just a suspicion or did you use tools of that nature? Geschichte (talk) 19:04, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Geschicte

I wrote the response myself but asked AI to tidy up up for me. The reason I did this is because I have Parkinson's disease and a significant tremor makes it hard for me to type as I once did. I find the best way to tackle my physical limitations and yet still communicate is to use voice to text. Invariably, it makes stupid punctuation and syntax errors. AI helps me to combat this problem. I apologise if I have broken some rule by doing this but the words are mine. I am genuine about trying to fix the page so that it is up to standard and have worked very hard to try and do this...

Sincerely

Blackcatsx Blackcatsx (talk) 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Blackcatsx (talk · contribs), would you provide a summary of the best sources (please list between two and five sources and a summary of how each covers the hotel)? (If the sources are in the public domain, you can even quote the entire source in this discussion.) These sources must be reliable sources that are independent of the hotel. The best sources must provide significant coverage of the hotel. Thank you. Cunard (talk) 09:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your patience and for giving me the opportunity to clarify the sources supporting the Boyd's Eurobin Hotel article. Below are the strongest sources that provide significant and independent coverage:
1. "Old Pioneer Passes – Mr. John Boyd" (Yackandandah Times, 2 June 1921)
  - This retrospective obituary details John Boyd's contributions to the Eurobin community, specifically his role as the long-standing landlord of the Eurobin Hotel from 1870 to 1890.
  - It highlights his central role in establishing the hotel as a vital stop in the region and discusses the historical context of its operations.
  - Read the full article here.
2. "The Ovens District Election" (Ovens and Murray Advertiser, 17 February 1880)
  - This article documents a political event hosted at the Eurobin Hotel, where candidate Richard Warren addressed voters.
  - It provides insight into the hotel's role as a community gathering place and venue for regional political activity.
  - Read the full article here.
3. "Picturesque Victoria" (Ovens and Murray Advertiser, 21 August 1884)
  - This piece highlights the Eurobin Hotel’s dual role as both a public house and post office.
  - It describes the logistical importance of the hotel along the coaching route, including details about the daughter of the house managing horses and mail deliveries.
  - Read the full article here.
4. "Accident" (Ovens and Murray Advertiser, 18 November 1881)
  - This report details the Eurobin Hotel serving as a recovery site for an injured traveller, demonstrating its role as more than just a hospitality venue but also a place of refuge in emergencies.
  - Read the full article here.
5. "Bright" (Ovens and Murray Advertiser, 5 November 1898)
  - This article describes a 20-mile road race organised by the Federal Cycling Club of Bright, with the turning point designated at the site of Boyd's Eurobin Hotel.
  - It underscores the hotel's continued recognition as a local landmark even after its closure.
  - Read the full article here.
----

Historical Context and Source Availability

It’s worth noting that the Boyd's Eurobin Hotel existed in an era when local newspapers were the primary record-keepers for regional events. Comprehensive historical analyses or in-depth retrospectives about establishments like this were rarely conducted at the time. The sources provided reflect the kind of significant coverage one could reasonably expect from the late 19th century. Given the passage of time and the natural loss of many historical records, these surviving accounts are, in themselves, rare and valuable windows into the social, political, and logistical role the hotel played in the Eurobin community.

I hope this summary clarifies the strength and significance of the sources supporting the article. I remain committed to refining the page to meet Wikipedia’s standards and am open to further feedback.

Thank you again for your time and consideration.

Best regards,

Blackcatsx Blackcatsx (talk) 10:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for these summaries. The first article provides two sentences of coverage about the hotel. It says, "In July 1870, he became landlord of the Eurobin hotel, which was known in the old coaching days as the half-way house between Bright and Myrtleford. For 20 years he presided over that then well-known hostelry." This is not significant coverage of the hotel. Based on your description, the other sources mention the hotel in passing but do not "addres[s] the topic directly and in detail" as required by the notability guideline. Are there any other sources that provide at least two or three paragraphs of coverage about the hotel? I'm not seeing enough to meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline at the moment. Cunard (talk) 10:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Cunard and other editors,

Historical journalism from 19th-century rural Australia was naturally brief, anecdotal, and fragmented, especially compared to today's reporting. Eurobin is still considered regional today, being 15 km from the nearest small town, but back in the late 19th century, it was seriously remote - it took more than half a day to travel from the nearest town to it.

With respect, expecting extensive feature articles of two or three paragraphs (or more) is unrealistic for a hotel within a village of this size. I have read a couple of peer-reviewed articles around this subject, but nothing gets the point across quite as well as actually reading these old, 19th-century Australian regional newspapers. The style was vastly different from journalism today. Resources were limited, distribution was a challenge, and Australia is a uniquely vast and sparsely populated country in that regard.

In reporting, priority was given to local events, announcements, and practical information. In-depth feature articles were extremely rare. I could provide examples, but I’m getting the sense that a decision has already been made by Wikipedia editors? If I’m right about this, please just let me know.

There’s a saying in Australia - perhaps a little crude but meant in the best possible spirit: "I’m not here to f&%k spiders!"

I have no particular connection to Boyd's Eurobin Hotel, nor to any of the people who lived or associated with it. I’ve been fortunate to live in this area for the past four years and have noticed, as many others (Eurobin is en route to one of the larger tourist areas in this state -the town of Bright) have, a dearth of information on local history.

There are several informal Facebook groups where various discussions take place on snippets of history, as well as two historical societies. However, it struck me that Wikipedia was the ideal place to showcase a piece of history such as Boyd's Eurobin Hotel because it is easily accessible, allows new (old) information to be added if and when it is found, and helps build a collective picture of the pioneers of the area.

Many descendants of families like the Boyds are still living - some even in the local area - and history such as this delights them. I mention this simply to say that I am not attempting, in any way, to waste anybody's time or break any rules. This just seemed the best way to share some historical information, which I have spent a great many hours researching.

It’s clear to me, from the time I’ve spent researching and the articles I’ve found and referenced, that Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel was an important hub for the local community. No, it was never the Ritz-Carlton, but it’s a vivid illustration of life in rural Australia during those challenging days - a place that served as a stopover, a post office, a gathering point, and a lifeline in a remote and often unforgiving landscape.

I could create a section on my own website, but once I’m gone, the information is lost.

In summary, if I’m fighting a losing battle trying to make myself understood here - if the relevance of this page, though on a small scale important to many in the Ovens Valley area, isn’t apparent - let’s just call it. Typing isn’t easy for me anymore, as I’ve previously mentioned, and if I’m flogging the proverbial dead horse, I’d rather focus on other things.

Thank you once again for your time and consideration.

Blackcatsx Blackcatsx (talk) 09:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, I have read many old American newspapers and their style is similar – they didn't have as much in-depth explanatory journalism, while mundane goings-on were regularly reported. But with that, we have notability standards on Wikipedia, and we simply do not need such mundane things to have their own articles. Countless people and places have received this sort of coverage, and post offices, stopovers, and gathering points, or combinations thereof, are simply not notable or need articles due to their existence or perceived local importance. We expect substance to our sources, and that's not present here. Reywas92^Talk 16:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per my comment above and Reywas92's analysis. The hotel does not meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline as it has not received significant coverage in reliable sources. I wanted to retain this article about a historical hotel, but the sources do not support such a position. In many cases when editors create articles on historical hotels, there is at least some coverage that supports the hotels' historical significance and notability. But in this case, the sources are passing mentions and do not say why the hotel is historically significant. This article could be redirected to Eurobin#History per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion. But as Reywas92 noted about the sources, not a single one of them is more than the barest passing mention. Given how little coverage this hotel has received, it is likely undue weight to mention it at Eurobin#History. Cunard (talk) 09:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. I just saw this written yesterday. My last post was in response to yours of 22nd of December. I just want to clarify - are you saying Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel wouldn’t even fit into the Eurobin#History section, or do you mean it could be redirected there with a shorter version of the content?

From everything I’ve researched, it’s clear the hotel played a pretty central role in Eurobin’s history. It wasn’t just a place for travellers to stop; it also served as the post office, a gathering spot for community events, a venue for political speeches, and even a recovery site for injured travellers. I’ve come across many such articles backing this up - mentions of election candidates holding speeches, accounts of the hotel being used for first aid, and more details about its role as a post office. But they’re all small articles, not detailed features, which reflects the reality of 19th-century Australian regional reporting.

I genuinely believe it tells an important story about life in regional Australia during that era, even if it wasn’t the grandest establishment around. I’d really appreciate knowing which direction you think makes the most sense so I can focus my energy in the right place. Blackcatsx (talk) 09:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete if the best source is "Ovens and Murray Advertiser" that is local coverage as per WP:AUD and doesn't meet WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 12:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your feedback. I respectfully disagree with the assessment that this article relies solely on local coverage under WP:AUD. While The Ovens and Murray Advertiser was a regional publication serving a broad area of North East Victoria (not just Eurobin itself), The Age - a major metropolitan newspaper from Melbourne - also provides coverage of events related to Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel.

The historical reporting style of 19th-century rural Australia must also be considered here. Comprehensive feature articles on smaller but significant establishments simply weren’t the norm in regional reporting. Instead, details about places like Boyd’s Hotel are found in smaller, event-focused articles, which, when viewed collectively, paint a clear picture of its importance.

Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel wasn’t just an inn - it served as a coaching stop, the local post office, a political campaign venue, and even a recovery centre for injured travellers. These roles demonstrate its significance in the social, logistical, and political life of Eurobin and the surrounding region.

Again, I’ve also found mentions in The Age, which further reinforces that coverage wasn’t limited to regional publications.

I believe these factors satisfy the criteria for WP:ORG, considering the historical context and the coverage we can reasonably expect from rural reporting of that time.

If there are specific areas you feel need improvement or additional focus, I’m happy to work on them.

Best regards,

Blackcatsx Blackcatsx (talk) 13:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Boyd’s Eurobin Hotel wasn’t just an inn - it served as a coaching stop, the local post office, a political campaign venue, and even a recovery centre for injured travellers. These roles demonstrate its significance in the social, logistical, and political life of Eurobin and the surrounding region. Its role is irrelevant in meeting the notability guidelines. This fails WP:ORG. Please list the sources you found in the Age. LibStar (talk) 13:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:53, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kamand Amirsoleimani

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO, as no significant coverage in reliable, independent sources is available to establish notability. IMDb and MUBI are not reliable sources (WP:USERG). Nxcrypto Message 10:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Women, Film, and Iran. Nxcrypto Message 10:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: a fairly notable actress, meeting WP:NACTRESS with multiple significant roles in notable productions; the page needs improvement and the corresponding article in Persian can help, for a start. -Mushy Yank. 12:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mushy Yank Kamand Amirsoleimani may have participated in notable productions, the article heavily relies on local news sites, which are not considered reliable or independent sources for establishing WP:ACTRESS notability. Nxcrypto Message 03:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Your assertion that "local news sites [...] are not considered reliable or independent sources for establishing WP:ACTRESS notability." is simply not true. -Mushy Yank. 20:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This article has significantly changed since its AfD nomination. -Mushy Yank. 01:47, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep The subject appears to meet some notability however there is still need for improvement. Tesleemah (talk) 08:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Tesleemah I agree that some aspects of the subject's notability are present, but the article heavily relies on local news sources, which are not sufficient to meet the notability criteria outlined in WP:GNG, WP:ACTOR and WP:BIO. For the article to be kept, it needs substantial sourcing from reliable, independent publications that can verify her notability on an international scale. Without this, I feel it is premature to retain the article. Nxcrypto Message 03:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the local news are reliable, I think that's fine. It doesn't have to be on an international scale. Tesleemah (talk) 05:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Passes NACTOR through roles in Angel Street Bride, The Enigma of the Shah, I'm Just Kidding, Foggy Tabriz and In Search of Peace. May also pass GNG. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 02:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Kamand Amirsoleimani’s page should be retained as it satisfies the notability criteria outlined in WP:NACTOR, which specifies that actors with significant roles in multiple notable productions meet the threshold for inclusion. Amirsoleimani’s roles in acclaimed works such as Angel Street Bride, The Enigma of the Shah, I’m Just Kidding, Foggy Tabriz, and In Search of Peace demonstrate her impact in the entertainment industry. While the article may require improvement, the claim that local news sources are inherently unreliable contradicts WP:RS, which allows for context-specific consideration of reliability. Local sources are valid when covering regional figures who have garnered significant attention within their cultural sphere. Furthermore, the corresponding Persian Wikipedia article offers a foundation for bolstering the English version. Articles should not be deleted when they can be improved to meet standards, per WP:PRESERVE. Lastly, the subject’s contribution to a historically and culturally rich film industry like Iran’s merits retention under WP:GEOLAND, which recognizes the importance of regional context in establishing notability. Yarshater (talk) 22:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sahara Elite League

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Not enough coverage on independent reliable sources; Fails WP:GNG. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Cricket, and Kenya. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Very minor tournament which was only played once and lacks significant coverage. Shrug02 (talk) 00:03, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per nom. Minor tournament, lacking widespread coverage. AA (talk) 21:21, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

East African Premier League

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Not enough coverage on independent reliable sources; Fails WP:GNG. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:44, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Cricket, Kenya, and Uganda. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:44, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As per nom. Shrug02 (talk) 00:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per nom. Minor tournament lacking widespread coverage. AA (talk) 21:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete minor event that doesn't pass WP:GNG. ~~•~

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Ahmed Haitham. ✗plicit 11:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shajaan Muaz Shaheem

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Subject does not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines, lacks more reliable sources. I don't think greatbusinessexchange.co.uk and open.endole.co.uk are reliable sources. Plus, being a wife of an MP doesn't make the person notable. The article has only one sentence. Also, Secretary General of the organization is just a normal job and isn't a notable position. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 10:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I updated most of the cites which was cleared out from the article while someone else edited it and also found resources on Mary Robinson climate justice award and one young world too, but as its not my targeted development I haven't put any of this and just cited and it was deleted, concentrating mostly on the attacks concerning the subject during her pregnancy which related to the parliamentarian and his tenure as that develops. NormadicEditor (talk) 11:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So this article was actually being developed due to these, I understand the positions mentioned doesn't make the person notable,( I didn't have much information on the individual than those three positions to describe the lead) but the saga surrounding these cites was the main notability of the article, because this subjected to life threatening circumstances also due to it immense coverage and by news platforms. NormadicEditor (talk) 11:28, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All those citations are about the couple's marriage, "MP Haitham has married", and the couple receiving a attack. That doesn't mean the wife is notable. Notability is on what the person has done. Eg: A notable job, a profession, occupation etc.. The article could be made a redirect to her husband's article "Ahmed Haitham" instead and make a "Personal life" section. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 11:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that’s exactly what I was trying to express but wasn’t sure how to phrase it. I even considered whether Wikipedia has a personal template on another’s data page or something similar. The subject has notable positions but non was on the news articles but mostly on edu websites and academia which doesn't qualify for the wiki guidelines and the feline welfare part I concentrated due to the huge media coverage surrounding the organisation and its notable work for stray cats, Could you also help me with creating a redirect article? I’m not very familiar with the process. Thanks again for all your help! :) NormadicEditor (talk) 12:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I finally figured out how the redirect works! Wikipedia has been a bit tricky for me (clearly, I need to ditch my jour-no habits). Thanks for teaching me something new today , you’re a true Wikipedia mentor! Now, what should we do with the delete template? NormadicEditor (talk) 12:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Advertising, and Maldives. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: to Ahmed Haitham. Unilandofma^{(Talk to me!)} 14:01, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: to the spouse's page seems fine. Most of what's used for sourcing doesn't show notability. Oaktree b (talk) 16:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: to the spouses page, i believe this page to be edited better, starting from the picture to the persons work flow, she is a environmental activist and also was the first regional director of the maldives business award which is also the first business award ever held in maldives, these citations and accomplishments of the indiviual has been clearly not citated and the page lacks weight due to that, also she is published in the international ocean journal through resilience maldives where she is the founder, also one young world where she is the compliance to maldivian environment and stewardship program (which is also first of its kind) also she obtained this through winning mary robinson climate justice award in 2019. she deserves a wikipedia page but not this one! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pettylittlething (talk • contribs) 17:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those citations are on edu, orgs and certainly places like linkedn and wikipedia doesn't allow most of those. NormadicEditor (talk) 17:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn by nominator‎ (non-admin closure) ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 17:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Der Herr wird dich mit seiner Güte segnen

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NSONG. Possibly could redirect to Helmut Schlegel. Polyamorph (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Albums and songs, Music, and Christianity. Polyamorph (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: please inform project Classical music. - This song is published in the main section of Gotteslob, the central Catholic hymnal for all German-speaking countries, actually twice in several dioceses. It also gets sung as I can tell you from church experience (which can't be said of all songs in the book). What else do you need to be notable? It has even become part of a major published work, you can listen on YouTube. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This demanding hymn is covered by notable sources, for example by the musicologist and theologian Meinrad Walter. Grimes2 (talk) 10:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – This hymn is part of standard hymn books. This particular hymn has received coverage in several religious websites, here, here, here, and here (quick web search). Church hymns will (almost) never satisfy the the enumerated criteria at WP:NSONG, so that's setting the the wrong bar to clear. OTOH, I think it clears WP:GNG. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I saw those links, none of which appear to be particularly reliable sources, especially not the blog. Although I take your point that WP:NSONG may not be the correct bar for hymns. Polyamorph (talk) 14:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand how those websites can be characterised as unreliable. "blog" in a URL doesn't automatically disqualify that website; its author is de:Anton Stingl jun.. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - in agreement with the other "Keep" votes above, whose expert opinions are trustworthy. A basic web search is unlikely to reveal a lot of contemporary sources outside of older religious compendiums, but a Google Books search easily reveals that the hymn appears regularly in analyses of German religious songs. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:46, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw per the comments here, it was a mistake for me to assess this hymn under the same criteria as in WP:NSONG. Polyamorph (talk) 17:01, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:35, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Martina Ononiwu

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This article is largely based on 4 sources about her being "awarded the US Presidential Lifetime Achievers Award (Presidential Volunteer Service Award) (PVSA) by American President Joe Biden." This is apparently only reported in Nigerian sources, not in any official source, and she isn't listed on the official list[13]. The award is apparently only intended for "U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents", so not for a Nigerian in France. If the sources have this basic fact, the premisse for the articles, wrong, then they aren't reliable sources to start with but just repeating something spoonfed by the subject or someone trying to promote them. Fram (talk) 09:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Awards, Economics, Nigeria, France, and United States of America. Fram (talk) 09:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I've just done a deep dive into this. The President's Volunteer Service Award has various grades, and is given to numerous people every year, and is not generally notable. Only at the highest level, people receiving the the President's Call to Service Award (also called the "President's Lifetime Achievement Award"), may be notable for receiving the award. But even that is doubtful, as recipients are usually notable already in their own right. In any case, it's pretty clear that Martina Ononiwu did not receive the President's Call to Service Award, as there are no US-based notable sources testifying to this. A search for the name "Martina Ononiwu" is the news sources yields nothing except Nigerian news sources stating that she was given the President's Lifetime Achievement Award. It is highly unlikely that a person would be honored with the President's Lifetime Achievement Award, without leaving any sort of trace in the news sources. --LK (talk) 11:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Appears to be a HOAX based on the fact that USA sources mention nothing about the awards. I don't see notability otherwise. Oaktree b (talk) 16:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The President's Volunteer Service Award is notable. If it is not, it won't have a page in Wikipedia. Very clear. Royalrumblebee (talk) 19:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but the pages listing the winners of the award don't list Ononiwu, and she wouldn't be eligible in the first place. The notability that is disputed is not that of the award, but of Õnoniwu. Fram (talk) 08:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete : The article fails to meet Wikipedia's General Notability Guideline WP:GNG as it solely focuses on a single event without providing significant coverage of the topic. The subject's notability is questionable, given the award by the United States, despite being based in France with Nigerian origins. There is no international media coverage, with most coverage coming from Nigerian local and national dailies. This lack of international coverage and reliance on local publications gives the impression that the article may be sponsored or promotional in nature, further undermining its notability.Royalesignature (talk). 17:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are many notable people already in Wikipedia who have little or no foreign press mentioning them, but are very well covered in reliable sources in their home countries, especially movie actors and actresses. See Indian actors etc. So this argument is not very strong. GNG mentions national publications as notable, especially if these sources have pages themselves in Wikipedia, such as Vanguard (Nigeria),The Nation (Nigeria), and The Guardian (Nigeria), all in which Martina Ononiwu was significantly covered. I rather think the nomination for deletion is too hasty and I think it should have been an article placed for redrafting as I am already seeing more sources that are reliable. Royalrumblebee (talk) 19:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as this [[14]] does not list her, nor this [[15]], so this at least appears to be false. Slatersteven (talk) 17:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep : The article meets Wikipedia's General Notability Guideline WP:GNG as it provides significant coverage of the topic in four reliable sources, Vanguard (Nigeria),The Nation (Nigeria), and The Guardian (Nigeria). I just added a fourth Independent Nigeria. According to Wikipedia's policy and I quote, :"Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." See WP:SIGCOV. Secondly, the subject of the article was given a notable award in the United States, the President's Volunteer Service Award, which has its page here. If it is not notable, it won't pass notability to be included as a page in Wikipedia. There are many profiles in Wikipedia that are more notable in their home countries than elsewhere. The guide is to appear in notable sources. I humbly request that this nomination for deletion is too hasty as the article was published within four hours of its nomination and at best it could have been returned for redrafting, rather than deletion. This gives the impression that Nigerian sources are being seen as not notable. I saw the subject in a newspaper, made the research and decided to create without any solicitation whatsoever. Best.Royalrumblebee (talk) 20:05, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- But she hasn't received that award, she isn't even eligible for it (she isn't an American and doesn't live in the USA). So she isn't notable for the award, and the sources which uncritically report on it aren't reliable sources. Fram (talk) 08:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  The problem seems to be the sources and I ask in good faith, are Nigerian national newspapers not reliable sources? The weakness, I have come to admit, and in good faith too, is that the same content ran through the sources, much like someone fielded it to different journalists. Still, I vouch for her notability from a 2022 source in Independent Nigeria in which she bagged an earlier award along with former governors in Nigeria: https://independent.ng/marwa-wins-leadtimes-strategic-leadership-award-three-govs-wives-imo-lawmaker-others-bag-u-s-varsity-honour/
  
  She was also a notable speaker in Innovate Africa conference along with other notables (a former president of Nigeria, Olusegun Obasanjo; Director-General of the WTO, Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala; and P. L. O. Lumumba: https://innovateafricacorps.com/events/ Royalrumblebee (talk) 14:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - The problem is that even the website for the award does not list her as a recipient, so yes the problem is that only Nigerian newspapers have stated this.literally no no else, not even the people who are alleged to have awarded it. Slatersteven (talk) 17:45, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete:The issue here is not the reliability of Nigerian national newspapers but the reliability of the information provided by the sources used in the article. First off, the article fail to meet the WP:GNG. The subject of the article is not listed among the primary recipient of the award [16].Also, the award you cited here [17] is an award of honorary doctorate degree which doesn't constitute notability and neither does speaking alongside notable figures establish WP:notability. Emmanuella643 (talk) 16:56, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: The sources in the article do not prove that the subject is notable. The subject did not meet the WP:General Notability Guidelines. Andikan Efiok Eduok (talk) 18:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Having done thorough check of the references, I realized that some of the sources in the article are personal websites,here, here, link to google drive (which was used 5 times in the article) is a pdf document written by an individual this. Other reliable sources mentioned the award and being a strategist only. Aderiqueza (talk) 21:49, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: So she's a business consultant in France? We take out the award (which seems to be a false statement), what's left... A consultant with no coverage in France and only in Nigeria. They seem to cover everyone and his or her brother in media there, so that's not terribly notable. Oaktree b (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete on the grounds that once you except WP:NEWSORGINDIA (because Nigeria has the same issue) type sources there is nothing. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: An article about a non-notable subject that is well-written but relies on unverifiable information to establish notability. Since this and this did not list the subject on their website, it is definitely not an awardee. Ibjaja055 (talk) 08:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article is not really ready for inclusion on Wikipedia as the subject is not notable enough. Wår (talk) 06:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Promotional, possibly paid edit. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:26, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

R&R Insurance Services

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Doesn't pass NCORP criteria NiftyyyNofteeeee (talk) 08:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Finance, Companies, and Wisconsin. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fail to meet WP:GNG on WP:NORG, WP:ORGSIG and WP:ORGCRIT. No WP:RS and WP:IS other than some coverage in local media. Fail WP:V. QEnigma talk 17:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. The "delete" arguments are more persuasive. The issue here is whether this man is notable independent of his son, and to establish this we would need to find WP:GNG-compliant reliable sources covering him (and not his son) in appropriate detail.

To the extent editors here have engaged in source analysis, they have made persuasive arguments that none of the proposed sources are of the required depth and quality, and these arguments have not been substantially rebutted by citing such sources. I'm disregarding the many opinions that simply assert that the subject is notable (or not) without making policy-based arguments to support their view.

This deletion does not preclude later recreation once sources of the required depth and quality are found, or redirection subject to editorial consensus. Sandstein 10:49, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Louis Mangione

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I fail to see the notability of the father of the shooter in the Brian Thompson killing. Being the father alone does not grant such notability, and the enterprises Louis Mangione is head of were also created the same time and day this article was, by the same user. The known for is also a bit egregious, "known for being the heir to the Mangione family fortune". I don't think much of anyone before two days ago even knew the Mangione family fortune existed. Ré union! 08:29, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It is irrelevant who created the article, why, or when. What matters is whether the subject is notable and whether there are reliable sources attesting to that. Based on that argument, you could have also nominated Nicholas Mangione for deletion, but you opted not to. Prior to recent events, Louis Mangione was mentioned by the Baltimore Sun here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here and by the Washington Post here, here, here, here, here, and here. He served as Vice President of Mangione Family Enterprises for decades and is now the head of the Mangione family fortune. All of that demonstrates his notability in the local business community. His son's recent actions simply shine further coverage on the family, which has been covered amply by the Baltimore and Washington, D.C. press for decades. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 09:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Maryland. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Bohemian Baltimore.-🐦DrWho42👻 10:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Why delete information? 2600:1702:540:6BF0:4403:38E5:2AA8:F46C (talk) 10:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because WP:NOTEVERYTHING Geschichte (talk) 10:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I went through every single one of Bohemian Baltimore's sources, and not a one of them is about Mangione; they are all about real-estate controversies loosely involving a Mangione property, with one or two brief quotes from Mangione sprinkled in. As for the references in the article, references 2 and 8 are the only ones I'd consider SIGCOV, and they are only talking about this individual in the context of the shooting. The article is a hybrid WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTINHERITED violation. Clearly this individual is not notable beyond the events of the past week. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 12:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@WeirdNAnnoyed - Wikipedia:Notability says that "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 12:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: So he's a buisnessman with a son that says he did bad things, not proven in court yet. If this was brought up to AfD six months ago, we'd delete it. Same reasoning applies, his business enterprise is not notable, he's only being talked about because of his son. Oaktree b (talk) 15:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per the analysis by WeirdNAnnoyed and my own at the sources, which do not include significant coverage. Esolo5002 (talk) 16:56, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment — It is irrelevant who created the article, why, or when. I'd say when the article was created is critical here. When other editors invoke "the sum total of human knowledge" in reference to this project and I poke holes in their arguments large enough to drive a 747 through, there's a reason why it's met with denial and suppression. There's far more to "the sum total of human knowledge" than parroting the agenda of the legacy media and writing about little else. If BB's laundry list of sources going back decades really meant anything, then I shouldn't be looking at an article that's only about 12 hours old. Wikipedia repeatedly shows its lack of credibility by newly creating biographies as a reaction to the subject's death, when the real world saw the person as notable decades ago. In addition to the WP:WHATEVER invoked by WeirdNAnnoyed above, there's also WP:COATRACK. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 18:52, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WeirdNAnnoyed. I also did my own research on Newspapers.com to see if there were any articles from The Baltimore Sun about Mangione himself, as there were about his father, and could only find articles about his proposed real-estate developments, in which he is mentioned one or two times and not as the primary subject. Y2hyaXM (talk) 21:55, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP. The only reason the family or family friend has requested deletion is because they’re worried about their reputation. The public should know about anyone running a “family enterprise” …especially when their ultra-privileged offspring murders a man who came from a rural, working-class family and worked for over 20 years to make CEO with a bachelors degree from a state school. If that isn’t ironic enough, the CEO made far less money than his own parents. There is a nation-wide conversation about wealth right now, and the Mangione’s shouldn't get to opt out. 2600:1008:B218:2C3F:F0FA:33BB:D96D:23E5 (talk) 04:06, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correction: Mangiones 2600:1008:B218:2C3F:F0FA:33BB:D96D:23E5 (talk) 04:06, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That man wasn't known a week ago, and appears to have a rather ho-hum business career, that's not quite notable for here. Oaktree b (talk) 05:19, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I find it funny how here I'm accused of being related to the Mangiones. I have absolutely no relation to him, nor do I know any of his family. He is simply not relevant enough to be on the site, as users WeirdNAnnoyed and RadioKAOS have articulated far better than I can. Ré union! 05:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP: Well, he just hired a posh, well-known NY attorney to represent his son who murdered someone. I say he’s about to be more notable than he was before. Perhaps we should give it a few weeks. 108.160.192.62 (talk) 05:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Bohemian Baltimore. He clearly has has significant coverage. However, there is precedent from 2007 that this article could still be deleted to protect individuals only tangentially connected with a major crime; the subject made a direct appeal to Jimbo Wales, and then not only was the article deleted and salted, but the two AfDS were memory holed. Bearian (talk) 03:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Oaktree b. This likely fails notability. Especially as most, if not all notability, is because of Luigi - not Louis or his career. Synorem (talk) 11:19, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. E_F⁵ 15:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, several reliable sources cover Louis. Senior Captain Thrawn (talk) 18:24, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Bohemian Baltimore, he's notable for reasons other than his son killing some big CEO. KmartEmployeeTor (talk) 19:34, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Idek mann (talk) 20:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I was on the fence about this one, but as time goes on there are more sources being added that support his relevancy outside of his son.Thief-River-Faller (talk) 22:02, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
delete Yes, there are reliable sources, and what they reliably show is that he's a reasonably successful business person of no particular note except for that son of his, whose notoriety he does not inherit. And yes, the timing does matter, because two decades of lack of interest in him here is already evidence for his lack of notability. Look if the Sun or someone were to put up a profile of him that would be a stronger argument, but when you compare his article to his father's, the paucity here is really very obvious. Mangoe (talk) 23:24, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Bohemian Baltimore OsageOrange (talk) 00:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There is a lot of voting going on here (both ways) but little actual consideration of the sources. Bohemian Baltimore gave just two sources: The Baltimore Sun (which irritatingly presents different content in Europe to what Americans see, requiring a bit of trickery to review) and the Washington Post. Multiple articles from a single source count as one towards GNG, but that is moot because, as has already been pointed out by WeirdNAnnoyed, none of these sources count towards GNG, because none have significant coverage on Mangione. I'll take just one example: The idea is to preserve the golf courses and develop a mixed-use community around it with as much green space as possible," said Louis Mangione, "[etc.]"[18]. WP:SIGCOV requires that coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail The topic here is Mangione, and this coverage does not address him as the topic at all. Sources are required to give us something to write the page from. There is literally nothing there that we can say about Mangione. That source provides us nothing at all. It is not SIGCOV. And no, we can't use his spoken words because those are primary and not independent. Bohemian Baltimore quotes the guidance that the mention does not need to be the main topic of the source material and that is true, but it must still be significant. There is nothing we can say about Mangione from these sources. They do not meet GNG. None of them. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:58, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Run of the mill business person, does not meet WP:GNG, notablity is not inherited. Orange sticker (talk) 17:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Sirfurboy’s reasoning. While Louis Mangione has popped up in many Baltimore/DC newspaper articles over the years, the articles typically only provide the bare minimum amount of information about Mangione needed for the reader to understand his relevancy to the main article topic. These are trivial mentions, not significant coverage. The only meaningfully in-depth coverage about Mangione comes from articles about his son and father (who does actually have some significant coverage pre-dating the shooting). I don’t believe that a large number of trivial mentions and some inherited notability is enough to meet GNG. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 23:30, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per @Bohemian Baltimore AverageWikiContributor (talk) 23:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I put this as a reply. AverageWikiContributor (talk) 23:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OOPS* Can someone delete this? I don't know how; AverageWikiContributor (talk) 23:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed your duplicate per your request and left this one in place as requested here [19]. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As per the reasons put forward by Oaktree b who said: "His business enterprise is not notable. If this was brought up to AfD six months ago, we'd delete it." Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 01:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable outside of his son being a widely-known suspect in a crime. Kingturtle = (talk) 18:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. But at this point, I'm leaning Delete. I think those argue for Deletion have made the argument that aside from his son's alleged crimes, he is a run-of-the-mill businessman. There are only a few sources used in the article but a source assessment and whether or not they provide SIGCOV would be useful right now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: fails WP:GNG. The sources provided give the illusion of notability, but upon closer inspection, none of them offer WP:SIGCOV. They're all passing mentions. This is a clear case of WP:NOTINHERITED.--DesiMoore (talk) 16:12, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep There are many articles about non-high profile individuals. I don't see why should we treat this one differently. Equalness1 (talk) 17:32, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:LPNAME Wafflefrites (talk) 20:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- run of mill references by internet sleuths cannot justify notability. Only thing notable is that person is related to an accused killer, which is a huge WP:BLP violation. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 23:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As per Liz, some source analysis of this version [20]:
- [21] is a youtube interview of Nino Mangione by the Republican Women Baltimore County club. It does not mention Louis and is only used to cite the pronounciation of the last name of Mangione. Obviously should just be removed as a source (and I just did.)
- [22], archived at [23] is an obituary of Nicholas Mangione. Louis is mentioned twice, once when he recounts a story about nicholas mangione, and another time to repeat that Louis survives as the son. Is obviously WP:PASSING coverage.
- [24] mostly part of the media circus of the killing
- [25] mentions louis as son of nicholas, and includes multiple quotes by him. However, the subject matter is mostly about the resort and speaks nothing about louis himself.
- [26] - a single quote by louis. is WP:PASSING coverage
- [27], archived at [28] mostly just mentions louis as a project lead a single time. WP:PASSING
- [29].. no useful archive, so goodby $6 i guess. A single quote by Louis.
- [30] a single quote by Louis.
- [31] - media circus of killing
- [32] - no mention of louis, just used to talk about his son being arrested
Findings: Of the 10 sources in here, 2 do not mention Louis by name at all, just different members of family. 5 are clear WP:PASSING mentions, a single quote or a single sentence in a larger story. 1 source includes louis talking extensively about the business prospects of a major resort, arguably more about the resort than louis And 2 are the media circus frenzy around luigi mangion. Even then, its more about the mangione family as a whole.

We should delete article. There is no meaningful notability here, only WP:BLPCRIME, and much of this is mostly WP:BLPGOSSIP about the family. See also WeirdNAnnoyed for a more succinct summary. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:43, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
.. and now Baltimore Sun won't lemme cancel my $6 yearly subscription :( Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will also note nearly all Keep votes are citing Bohemian's reasoning, but as most sourcing is clearly trivial, those Keep votes should be discounted/discarded. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Historical events matter. They can and do transform irrelevant people into notable people. For example, Marina Oswald automatically becomes notable only because she was married to Lee Harvey Oswald. Eva Braun becomes notable because she was Hitler's longtime girlfriend and finally wife. Clara Petacci becomes notable because she was Mussolini's mistress. The fact that Louis Mangione is very wealthy obviously means that he's capable of paying for his son's legal services and defenses. IZAK (talk) 00:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

there is significant literature of Eva Braun, and Lee Harvey Oswald. All literature and sourcing in this page is passing references or mostly about Luigi Mangione. And historical significance is hard to judge when WP:RECENTISM is driving most of this convo on this AfD right now. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 00:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Historical events unfold at blinding speed. The calculated cold blooded assassination of the CEO of America's largest health insurance company on the streets of NYC by the scion of a fabulously wealthy family headed by Louis Mangione is a major event with major media and social repercussions as one can easily see from the massive amount of reporting and interest by the media. Thousands of articles, TV reports and social media posts continue to flood in. It's obvious we are dealing with a major story that is not going away and that it's not a flash in the pan event or a "run-of-the mill" random murder. IZAK (talk) 01:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, thousands of articles about Luigi Mangione 'continue to flood in', and nobody is arguing over the fact that the killing is a major story that is not going away. However, the notability of a random businessman in Louis Mangione who just happens to be that same person's father does not in and of itself meet notability requirements, a reason among others being WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Ré union! 09:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What you don't seem to get is that the Mangiones are an interconnected dynasty, clan and a family business and you cannot seperate one clan member from the other especially when Louis Mangione is not just another random member of the dynasty and clan, but he is the head and CEO of the entire multi-million Mangione business empire and that is WP:N and not a trivial thing. In addition his wealth allows him to buy the best lawyers to defend his son which is a critical piece of this story. IZAK (talk) 20:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before the killing nobody knew this “multi-million dollar empire” even existed, it wasn’t in the public eye nor did it gain any notability as referenced by Sirfurboy’s analysis of the sources you provided and the sources provided by Bohemian Baltimore. If you’re able to provide sources that fit SIGCOV then that would back up your claim but so far there hasn’t been any, nor do I think there will be. Unrelated, but happy Wikipedia Birthday! Ré union! 21:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Reunion: Thank you for the "Birthday" wishes. Please see my comments and responses below, as I do not wish to repeat myself. Thank you! IZAK (talk) 03:10, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per previously stated reasonings. DovahDuck (talk) 00:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are significant coverage in reliable sources as Bohemian Baltimore listed, they decided that he is notable, we don't get to perform original research on whether he is a run off the mill guy or not. Kenneth Kho (talk) 00:53, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which of the sources do you believe provide significant coverage? There are certainly a lot of sources, but so far no one has found any sources that contain coverage going beyond a trivial mention or passing reference. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 18:09, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I vehemently agree with you @Spirit of Eagle, nobody has found anything to merit a keep in my eyes, everybody is just assuming he passes notability requirements. Ré union! 09:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Subject is notable Codonified (talk) 11:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yea its useless Yesyesmrcool (talk) 15:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete To me it seems that he's just notable by association. The analysis of the sources by other users also did not give favorable results, so either the article needs to be updated with strong secondary sources that specifically discuss the subject of this page or it should be deleted and/or merged under its current condition. Keivan.f^Talk 21:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge I agree with reasonsing about lack of sources but I think that will likely sort itself out in the following year with inevitable journalist and academic reasearch that will be conducted about his son's life. What I am worried about is that the article is extremely short, that he's just not notable enough as a parent or business man to warrent a full article. I believe until there is information that makes him more notable that this article should be merged with his son's. AssanEcho (talk) 23:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because he is WP:N in his own right and the article has enough WP:V WP:RS. IZAK (talk) 04:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See the relist comment. Could you show at least 3 sources that meet GNG please? Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He is notable because he owns multiple big companies: Mangione Family Enterprises, Lorien Health Services, Turf Valley Resort, Hayfields Country Club. Therefore, to allege that "he is a run-of-the-mill businessman" is both not true and misleading. In any case, just exactly what is a "NOT run of the mill businessman"??? You don't have to be a Bill Gates of Microsoft or a Jeff Bezos of Amazon to meet the notability guidelines of Wikipedia where even Bugs Bunny and Woody Woodpecker are notable enough to get articles of their own. IZAK (talk) 00:47, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I asked for sources and you gave arguments. Sources are what matters. We need multiple independent reliable secondary sources that discuss him as the subject. We need those because that is what we use to write the article. If we don't have such sources, he does not qualify for a BLP article. You cannot write a BLP without independent reliable secondary sources. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:57, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(1) "Nick Mangione Sr. said in 1995 that he was beginning to pass the torch to his children, in particular his two eldest sons, Louis and John, who were described as civil engineers. Louis, Luigi Mangione’s father, became the point person for the Mangione Family Enterprises" [33]. (2) "Who are Luigi Mangione’s wealthy parents, Louis and Kathleen – and what have they said since his arrest? The couple are involved in the healthcare and travel industries" [34]. (3) "His father, Louis Mangione, known as Lou, now runs much of the family's business empire" [35]. (4) "Louis, and uncle, John, took over the role of handling the family's business affairs when Nick Mangione Sr. began to step back from those duties in 1995, with Louis taking the lead of Mangione Family Enterprises" [36]. (5) "His father, Louis was groomed to help take over the family’s business empire, according to a 2003 Washington Post article" [37]. With hundreds more references like these. He may not have been NOTICABLE before, but, once his son assassinated the largest US health insurance company CEO, he is very NOTABLE now. IZAK (talk) 00:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The first thing to notice here is that all five of these sources are occasioned by Luigi's arrest, coverage extending over just 3 days. They ask "who are his parents," but although family always gets such a brief flurry of notice following arrests for such crimes, per WP:NRV, the evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest. So they are insufficient on those grounds. But in any case, these are not evidence of notability per SIGCOV, which states GNG is only met if, among other factors, the source addresses the topic directly and in detail Looking at these:

(1) You quote the entirety of what it says about Louis. 45 words. Sources are required so that something can be written about the subject. This gives us nothing to say about him. There is no detail here.

(2) The only information in this piece is that Louis is 71 and "Louis is reportedly the owner of Lorien Health Services." Again, nothing in detail. Very telling that the article asks "Who are [Luigi's parents]" and then spends most time on Luigi’s paternal grandfather, Nicholas. This is evidence that Louis is not notable.

(3) Same comment as above. The article asks who is Luigi's father, gives us just 15 words! And then it launches into the much more notable grandfather, Nicholas. In an article looking at the accused party's father, they could find nothing to say and so talked about his grandfather. This is clear evidence of a lack of notability.

(4) Just 36 words. Not SIGCOV. Nothing from which the article can be written.

(5) Just 20 words. And note that all of these are only repeating the only single factoid we know about the man. He took over the family business created by Nicholas Mangione. Five articles and all we can say is that he is 71 and took over the business. There is no SIGCOV here. GNG is not met and these are excluded per NRV.

Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It makes no difference how we arrive at the WP:V and WP:RS and how many words are or are not expended in articles in the process because if you add up the hundreds of mentions of Louis Mangione it amounts to massive WP:N. What you are really doing is going into overdrive and nitpicking hoping that your WP:LAWYERING will make reality go away. Of course Louis Mangione was under the radar but his son's assassination of a notable CEO have brought Louis Mangione out from behind the curtains into the spotlight of publicity in the public domain and behold he is in fact WP:N in his own right to deserve a short article about himself, and no one can change that or make it go away. IZAK (talk) 20:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, it's not wikilawyering when I was perfectly clear. We need [significant coverage in independent reliable secondary sources] because that is what we use to write the article. If we don't have such sources, he does not qualify for a BLP article. You cannot write a BLP without independent reliable secondary sources. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This subject is about breaking news and as such a lot of important information is not going to exist in the formalized WP format that you mention in order to write a "perfect" WP article about a key person, Louis Mangione, involved in this story. It has only been a few weeks that the assassination took place and it takes time for all the relevant facts and personalities to come into public view. Therefore we rely on news reports and articles from whatever sources no matter how brief as long as they are bona fide WP:V and WP:RS even though they may individually lack longer details. In this kind of situation WP allows, even encourages, editors to WP:BEBOLD and Wikipedia:Ignore all rules and write up an article about Louis Mangione who is both a notable millionaire in his own right and is therefore also responsible for hiring the best lawyers for his son in this sensational murder trial. IZAK (talk) 20:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This subject is about breaking news. Right, and it is thus excluded per policy. See WP:NOTNEWS. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You make no sense. Wikipedia covers breaking news all the time when it is notable as in this case. The sudden killing of Brian Thompson on December 4th, 2024 is part of breaking news and is not excluded from Wikipedia. Luigi Mangione was an unknown nobody, with zero biography about him, until he assassinated Brian Thompson that's also breaking news but very notable to be included as a subject in a WP article. You make me laugh. Take a look at Wikipedia's main home page, what do you see on the right hand side?: "In the news" updates!!! We even paste a current events template on an article if events are unfolding in the news. Please stop misconstruing WP policy to the DETRIMENT of adding WP:N, WP:V, WP:RS content on WP. IZAK (talk) 03:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is not the article of Luigi Mangione, this is the article of his father, who, as you have shown, only has a brief flurry of very short mentions because his son is the accused. WP:NOTNEWS is a policy. You also stated that Louis (and this page) meets WP:N, but it doesn't. WP:N says Wikipedia is a lagging indicator of notability. And I am not misconstruing Wikipedia policy. You are. You again say this meets WP:N but WP:N says:

A topic is presumed to merit an article if:
1. It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG); and
2. It is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy.

The sources do not meet GNG and also what you are arguing for is excluded under WP:NOT. So it fails under not one, but both arms of WP:N. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to the last sentence: Bugs Bunny and Woody Woodpecker are household names. Also, we're talking about a real-life person here. GKarastergios (talk) 00:05, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Real life people who are notable and as in this case, the father of a notable murderer, are more important in REALITY than fictional cartoon characters who are of zero consequences in reality. As the saying goes: "get real"!IZAK (talk) 03:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is determined by coverage in reliable sources, not the perceived importance of an article subject. Bugs Bunny has received decades of significant coverage and was the primary subject of at least one full-length book. The character plainly and unambiguously meets notability requirements in a way that this article’s subject does not. If you believe that Louis Mangione is actually notable, then please demonstrate this notability by providing sources that give him in-depth coverage. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The two fictional characters are of note due to their global popularity and heavy influence on the animation industry as a whole (among many others). They are in fact of consequence in the real world. Merely being the parent of someone of consequence is not sufficient, and all other known evidence is not sufficient to make him noteworthy as a person in his own right. GKarastergios (talk) 05:05, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep because he is notable. Theofunny (talk) 17:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Per WP:GNG: None of the sources provide significant coverage of the person in question, only providing trivial mentions, with notability not being inherited. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 22:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. Louis Mangione is not noteworthy in his own right. His son is, his father is, and his businesses arugbly are, but being related to such does not constitute noteworthiness in his own right. GKarastergios (talk) 23:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete he is not notable. Anvib (talk) 22:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per Wikipedia, notable subjects will be those for which sufficient sourcing is available. If there is sourcing, he is notable. I do not feel we have the right to dictate who is notable or not if the information is present. That is the spirit of Wikipedia. 19.12.92.185 (talk) 22:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep 19.12.92.185 (talk) 22:54, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect with history - Redirect with history to Lorien Health Services, Luigi Mangione or Nicholas Mangione, but do not delete. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
support Redirect- Redirect with for the reasons stated to Lorien Health Services, Luigi Mangione for the reasons stated. 190.219.101.225 (talk) 04:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
keep, notable by himself as a businessman Kingofthedead (talk) 04:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Per WP:SIGCOV and WP:NOTEVERYTHING. For Louis Mangione to get his own article on Wikipedia, there would need to be sources on him where he was the primary subject. Said articles must also not be strictly tied to his son or the events surrounding him (e.g. "Louis Mangione, father of the killer" as a hypothetical article would not count as being notable in his own right). After searching several databases, I could not find any article which qualifies as such. In terms of articles which predate the killing by his son, they are primarily about his company and not Louis himself.
Furthermore, the following does not constitute personal notability, combined or otherwise:
- Operating several businesses in a geographic area (Maryland), even if one or more said businesses are noteworthy on their own
- Being mentioned in passing in a few articles about said businesses or events related to them
- Being a wealthy executive (There are tons of executives who are not noteworthy themselves, even if their business/employer is)
- Being the son of a wealthy executive, noteworthy or otherwise (Nicholas Mangione; WP:NOTINHERITED)
- Being the father of someone who is legitimately noteworthy (Luigi Mangione)

GKarastergios (talk) 21:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GKarastergios: The criteria you enumerate may have been true for a far more minor event and subject. However, this event, the killing of Brian Thompson is a very major story and the people involved such as the murderer, his important father and family are therefore automatically far more relevant and important and notable than had this story not garnered so much attention in the media and among the public. IZAK (talk) 03:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The recent events are irrelevant. A person without a Wikipedia article who would later be the parent of a globally-known murderer would not automatically get their own page because of that, regardless if they are of wealth or status. Outside of that, he is evidently not of sufficient note as a person within the public or his industry, and would not get his own article. If the crux is that he's notable because of his son, then that's clearly against policy. GKarastergios (talk) 05:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, notable by himself and notable in relation to the incident.Kfein (talk) 23:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to List of major crimes in Singapore (2020–present)#2024. Daniel (talk) 08:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hougang knife attack

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Classic case of WP:NOTNEWS—it's a tragedy for sure but there's been zero demonstration of any lasting significance... KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 07:57, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Can always be recreated if in the future it would somehow gain more enduring notability than the countless other murders happening each year. Fram (talk) 08:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, I thought that this made the headlines quite a lot and considering it also was reported in Malaysian and Vietnamese newspapers and not just from the local one. Plus, I also felt that in view of Singapore's low crime rate, it is not common to have such spree stabbings happen in the public where more than one victim is stabbed. NelsonLee20042020 (talk) 09:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And to sideline for Comment, I might need to clarify how some shocking cases can be kept in Wikipedia when they just happen, like the River Valley High School attack and mass shootings like the Charleston Church shooting, but others of such standard need to be deleted and later recreated on Wikipedia? What standards do I need to follow to ensure it can be kept? (I am pretty sure the coverage is not a problem here.) NelsonLee20042020 (talk) 09:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Every incident/article has to be assessed on its own merits. You are right that there's lots of coverage for this murder but it remains to be seen how enduring the coverage will be. I strongly urge you to better exercise your discretion (or consult others if you really can't tell). Please refrain from rushing to create an article for every single murder in the country as soon as it occurs—it's just not necessary. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 03:50, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's remember what the purpose of Wikipedia is and why we are writing all these articles. It would be better not to rush into writing an article as soon as the incident happens. The RVHS attack is a unique case as it happened inside a school, and from this detail alone, we can see right from the beginning that the case will have lasting significance. To put it into perspective, 5 to 10 years down the road most people will still remember the RVHS attack. At the moment I do not see the same happening for this Hougang attack. While it is getting significant coverage right now, after time has passed I do not expect many people with no connection to the case to remember it. However, this could change in the future if there are new developments. Blissfulclarity (talk) 14:58, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Tragic incident. But WP:SBST. BenTanXiaoMing (talk) 17:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Events, and Singapore. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per all the coverage that this has. Davidgoodheart (talk) 07:40, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ Redirect to List of major crimes in Singapore (2020–present)#2024 : Based on WP:EVENTCRIT, there is a need for 1) enduring historical significance or lasting effect N 2) widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources. While passing WP:GNG for being covered in diverse sources, there is no widespread impact. N 3) Events having lesser coverage or more limited scope may or may not be notable is not exactly applicable here so N 4) Routine kinds of news events – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance which basically ties back to point 1 so N. The knife attack fails all 4 criteria so it should fails notability for event. ~ JASWE (talk) 06:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to redirect to keep existing article and have a summarised version of the incident in the List of major crimes in Singapore (2020–present) article to preserve history in the event this incident sparks any reforms in the future. ~ JASWE (talk) 06:09, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. I don't see a consensus here yet and I think this discussion could use a bit more time. What I'm not seeing here is a source assessment which would useful in determining whether or not this incident has the notability for a standalone article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to to List of major crimes in Singapore (2020–present)#2024. This clearly meets the GNG, with several days of national news coverage and some international coverage in the region. (For this reason, the outcome of this AfD should not put in doubt the creator's autopatrolled rights.) However, this is a rare case where I agree that the lasting effect is likely to be minimal. The attacker and victims knew each other and this is not a mass stabbing. Murder is rare in Singapore, which makes any such incident shocking to the nation, but List of major crimes in Singapore (2020–present) shows that this incident is unfortunately not unique. Toadspike [Talk] 07:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of major crimes in Singapore (2020–present)#2024 per above. A brief burst of news coverage does not contribute to notability, and that's what all of the sourcing amounts to. It doesn't make sense to maintain a new article for each time someone gets stabbed and it makes the news. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 08:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kalin (Hinduism)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG and WP:V; after searching extensively, I found no reliable sources verifying the existence of 'Kalin' in the Rigveda or Hindu mythology. Likely WP:OR. Nxcrypto Message 07:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Mythology, Religion, and Hinduism. Nxcrypto Message 07:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@NXcrypto,

I agree that this article should be marked for deletion based on its lack of coverage as shown in WP:SIGCOV Chilicave (talk) 03:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and the article originally began as a hoax, as evident from its initial version: [38]. Nxcrypto Message 13:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 08:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Achwa 3 Hydroelectric Power Station

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This is not a real thing. At best this is WP:TOOSOON it was planned to open in 2022 and construction has not even started. Google search results do not establish notability. It cannot be considered a place since there is nothing there, verified with google maps. Czarking0 (talk) 06:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Uganda-related deletion discussions. Czarking0 (talk) 06:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fail to meet WP:GNG on WP:NGEO and WP:NBUILDING. No WP:RS and WP:IS for WP:V. QEnigma talk 16:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to 2023 NBA In-Season Tournament. (non-admin closure) — Benison (Beni · talk) 06:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2023 NBA In-Season Tournament championship game

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable tournament final that is lacking in serious coverage of the game itself. Could be covered sufficiently at 2023 NBA In-Season Tournament. In its current form, the article really isn't more than a simple summary of the game. Esolo5002 (talk) 04:29, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Basketball, California, Indiana, and Nevada. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with 2023 NBA In-Season Tournament per nomination. Alvaldi (talk) 07:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Firstly, the tournament is notable due to its extensive media coverage, high viewership, substantial incentives, and official recognition as a major event by the NBA itself. Secondly, the coverage of the final is on par with other significant championship games, such as the 2024 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship Game, 2024 NBA Finals and MLS Cup 2024. Lastly, the page offers more than just a game summary; it includes detailed information about the rosters, pre-game context, and the aftermath. H-Hurry (talk) 07:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge I don't understand this pathology to create articles for individual games when the main article can cover it just fine. Most of this page is duplicative of the tournament pages, and other details like the aftermath are welcome to be added there. Reywas92^Talk 14:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Rlendog (talk) 15:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with 2023 NBA In-Season Tournament per WP:NOPAGE guideline:
Sometimes, a notable topic can be covered better as part of a larger article, where there can be more complete context that would be lost on a separate page
—Bagumba (talk) 09:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per others, to 2023 NBA In-Season Tournament. Conyo14 (talk) 06:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. Not sure why this article exists when the 2023 IST article adequately covers it. SportsGuy789 (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings and delete‎. This is a bundled close for the following AfDs:

Since each page was nominated separately, there is a certain dispersion of views among the different AfDs. But I think I speak for all--and this view was expressed in several of these AfDs--when I say that ideally, all should be handled consistently. All these AFDs have been relisted twice, which garnered a grand total of one(!) additional !vote in aggregate - nothing else in twelve days on any of them. So I see no point in keeping these AfDs open any longer.

Several participants in many of the AfDs !voted to merge the content to Code_page#DOS_code_pages, which currently only indexes the various code pages, without including any of the character tables. This approach might work for one or two such tables. But merging the dozens of different code pages, each with a 128 or 256 character table, into a single page will result in a ridiculously large and unwieldy article, which would likely head straight to a discussion about splitting it, bringing us right back to where we started.

I see broad support for a transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings, where the information would fit in nicely with the various appendices. This isn't the first time this is being done. We faced a similar situation in 2020. So rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll follow the same approach taken by the now-retired closing admin there, and invite editors, ideally those with the wikibooks transwiki import permission, to carry out the move within the next 30 days (or longer if required), at the end of which I or any admin will delete the pages here. Please ping me when you're done, or if extra time is needed.

If there are similar pages that I missed, or ones that haven't been nominated, feel free to boldly carry out the transwiki move, linking to this AfD in your edit summary when tagging the page for deletion. Owen× ☎ 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Code page 853

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout. HyperAccelerated (talk) 04:51, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Computing, Malta, and Turkey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Transwiki, too obscure. Alexlatham96 (talk) 04:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or Transwiki per my rationale for Code page 3846 above. Davemc0 (talk) 17:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More discussion regarding whether to have a central article about code pages on Wikipedia, or to transwiki it to some subpage of wikibooks:Character_Encodings would be helpful here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings and delete‎. This is a bundled close for the following AfDs:

Since each page was nominated separately, there is a certain dispersion of views among the different AfDs. But I think I speak for all--and this view was expressed in several of these AfDs--when I say that ideally, all should be handled consistently. All these AFDs have been relisted twice, which garnered a grand total of one(!) additional !vote in aggregate - nothing else in twelve days on any of them. So I see no point in keeping these AfDs open any longer.

Several participants in many of the AfDs !voted to merge the content to Code_page#DOS_code_pages, which currently only indexes the various code pages, without including any of the character tables. This approach might work for one or two such tables. But merging the dozens of different code pages, each with a 128 or 256 character table, into a single page will result in a ridiculously large and unwieldy article, which would likely head straight to a discussion about splitting it, bringing us right back to where we started.

I see broad support for a transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings, where the information would fit in nicely with the various appendices. This isn't the first time this is being done. We faced a similar situation in 2020. So rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll follow the same approach taken by the now-retired closing admin there, and invite editors, ideally those with the wikibooks transwiki import permission, to carry out the move within the next 30 days (or longer if required), at the end of which I or any admin will delete the pages here. Please ping me when you're done, or if extra time is needed.

If there are similar pages that I missed, or ones that haven't been nominated, feel free to boldly carry out the transwiki move, linking to this AfD in your edit summary when tagging the page for deletion. Owen× ☎ 18:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Code page 860

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout, beyond a couple mentions in some books. HyperAccelerated (talk) 05:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Computing, and Portugal. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ ~~Has enough sources, and is a well-established code page.~~ Transwiki or Merge, because this is a search term, but not notable enough to have its own article. Alexlatham96 (talk) 18:43, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have done nothing to explain how this article has adequate sourcing. HyperAccelerated (talk) 19:24, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One new source showing date of creation: here.Alexlatham96 (talk) 22:12, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not sufficient, since it's a trivial mention according to WP: SIGCOV. HyperAccelerated (talk) 22:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per my rationale for Code page 3846 above. Davemc0 (talk) 16:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More discussion regarding whether to have a central article about code pages on Wikipedia, or to transwiki it to some subpage of wikibooks:Character_Encodings would be helpful here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings and delete‎. This is a bundled close for the following AfDs:

Since each page was nominated separately, there is a certain dispersion of views among the different AfDs. But I think I speak for all--and this view was expressed in several of these AfDs--when I say that ideally, all should be handled consistently. All these AFDs have been relisted twice, which garnered a grand total of one(!) additional !vote in aggregate - nothing else in twelve days on any of them. So I see no point in keeping these AfDs open any longer.

Several participants in many of the AfDs !voted to merge the content to Code_page#DOS_code_pages, which currently only indexes the various code pages, without including any of the character tables. This approach might work for one or two such tables. But merging the dozens of different code pages, each with a 128 or 256 character table, into a single page will result in a ridiculously large and unwieldy article, which would likely head straight to a discussion about splitting it, bringing us right back to where we started.

I see broad support for a transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings, where the information would fit in nicely with the various appendices. This isn't the first time this is being done. We faced a similar situation in 2020. So rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll follow the same approach taken by the now-retired closing admin there, and invite editors, ideally those with the wikibooks transwiki import permission, to carry out the move within the next 30 days (or longer if required), at the end of which I or any admin will delete the pages here. Please ping me when you're done, or if extra time is needed.

If there are similar pages that I missed, or ones that haven't been nominated, feel free to boldly carry out the transwiki move, linking to this AfD in your edit summary when tagging the page for deletion. Owen× ☎ 18:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Code page 859

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout. HyperAccelerated (talk) 04:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Computing, and Europe. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Can't find any sources to expand the article or establish notability. BJackJS talk 15:12, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki, too obscure. Alexlatham96 (talk) 04:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Alexlatham96, transwiki where? -- asilvering (talk) 03:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki to the Character Encodings Wikibook. Alexlatham96 (talk) 17:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or Transwiki per my rationale for Code page 3846 above. Davemc0 (talk) 17:16, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More discussion regarding whether to have a central article about code pages on Wikipedia, or to transwiki it to some subpage of wikibooks:Character_Encodings would be helpful here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings and delete‎. This is a bundled close for the following AfDs:

Since each page was nominated separately, there is a certain dispersion of views among the different AfDs. But I think I speak for all--and this view was expressed in several of these AfDs--when I say that ideally, all should be handled consistently. All these AFDs have been relisted twice, which garnered a grand total of one(!) additional !vote in aggregate - nothing else in twelve days on any of them. So I see no point in keeping these AfDs open any longer.

Several participants in many of the AfDs !voted to merge the content to Code_page#DOS_code_pages, which currently only indexes the various code pages, without including any of the character tables. This approach might work for one or two such tables. But merging the dozens of different code pages, each with a 128 or 256 character table, into a single page will result in a ridiculously large and unwieldy article, which would likely head straight to a discussion about splitting it, bringing us right back to where we started.

I see broad support for a transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings, where the information would fit in nicely with the various appendices. This isn't the first time this is being done. We faced a similar situation in 2020. So rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll follow the same approach taken by the now-retired closing admin there, and invite editors, ideally those with the wikibooks transwiki import permission, to carry out the move within the next 30 days (or longer if required), at the end of which I or any admin will delete the pages here. Please ping me when you're done, or if extra time is needed.

If there are similar pages that I missed, or ones that haven't been nominated, feel free to boldly carry out the transwiki move, linking to this AfD in your edit summary when tagging the page for deletion. Owen× ☎ 18:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Code page 857

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout. HyperAccelerated (talk) 04:58, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Computing, and Turkey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ ~~Has enough sources, and is a well-established code page.~~ Transwiki or Merge, because this is a search term, but not notable enough to have its own article. Alexlatham96 (talk) 18:43, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have done nothing to explain how this article has adequate sourcing. HyperAccelerated (talk) 19:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One new source showing date of creation: here.Alexlatham96 (talk) 22:12, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not sufficient, since it's a trivial mention according to WP: SIGCOV. HyperAccelerated (talk) 22:15, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or Transwiki per my rationale for Code page 3846 above. Davemc0 (talk) 17:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:29, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More discussion regarding whether to have a central article about code pages on Wikipedia, or to transwiki it to some subpage of wikibooks:Character_Encodings would be helpful here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings and delete‎. This is a bundled close for the following AfDs:

Since each page was nominated separately, there is a certain dispersion of views among the different AfDs. But I think I speak for all--and this view was expressed in several of these AfDs--when I say that ideally, all should be handled consistently. All these AFDs have been relisted twice, which garnered a grand total of one(!) additional !vote in aggregate - nothing else in twelve days on any of them. So I see no point in keeping these AfDs open any longer.

Several participants in many of the AfDs !voted to merge the content to Code_page#DOS_code_pages, which currently only indexes the various code pages, without including any of the character tables. This approach might work for one or two such tables. But merging the dozens of different code pages, each with a 128 or 256 character table, into a single page will result in a ridiculously large and unwieldy article, which would likely head straight to a discussion about splitting it, bringing us right back to where we started.

I see broad support for a transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings, where the information would fit in nicely with the various appendices. This isn't the first time this is being done. We faced a similar situation in 2020. So rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll follow the same approach taken by the now-retired closing admin there, and invite editors, ideally those with the wikibooks transwiki import permission, to carry out the move within the next 30 days (or longer if required), at the end of which I or any admin will delete the pages here. Please ping me when you're done, or if extra time is needed.

If there are similar pages that I missed, or ones that haven't been nominated, feel free to boldly carry out the transwiki move, linking to this AfD in your edit summary when tagging the page for deletion. Owen× ☎ 18:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Code page 856

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout. HyperAccelerated (talk) 04:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Computing, and Israel. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Has enough sources, and is a well-established code page. ~~I now have no decision about this one.~~ Transwiki, no sources. Alexlatham96 (talk) 18:43, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have done nothing to explain how this article has adequate sourcing. HyperAccelerated (talk) 19:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or Transwiki per my rationale for Code page 3846 above. Davemc0 (talk) 17:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:29, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More discussion regarding whether to have a central article about code pages on Wikipedia, or to transwiki it to some subpage of wikibooks:Character_Encodings would be helpful here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings and delete‎. This is a bundled close for the following AfDs:

Since each page was nominated separately, there is a certain dispersion of views among the different AfDs. But I think I speak for all--and this view was expressed in several of these AfDs--when I say that ideally, all should be handled consistently. All these AFDs have been relisted twice, which garnered a grand total of one(!) additional !vote in aggregate - nothing else in twelve days on any of them. So I see no point in keeping these AfDs open any longer.

Several participants in many of the AfDs !voted to merge the content to Code_page#DOS_code_pages, which currently only indexes the various code pages, without including any of the character tables. This approach might work for one or two such tables. But merging the dozens of different code pages, each with a 128 or 256 character table, into a single page will result in a ridiculously large and unwieldy article, which would likely head straight to a discussion about splitting it, bringing us right back to where we started.

I see broad support for a transwiki to wikibooks:Character_Encodings, where the information would fit in nicely with the various appendices. This isn't the first time this is being done. We faced a similar situation in 2020. So rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll follow the same approach taken by the now-retired closing admin there, and invite editors, ideally those with the wikibooks transwiki import permission, to carry out the move within the next 30 days (or longer if required), at the end of which I or any admin will delete the pages here. Please ping me when you're done, or if extra time is needed.

If there are similar pages that I missed, or ones that haven't been nominated, feel free to boldly carry out the transwiki move, linking to this AfD in your edit summary when tagging the page for deletion. Owen× ☎ 18:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Code page 1169

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP: NOTDICT. I can't find any sources that could expand the article beyond the definition of the codepage layout. HyperAccelerated (talk) 04:55, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Computing, and Asia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:35, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Transwiki No sources. Alexlatham96 (talk) 18:43, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or Transwiki per my rationale for Code page 3846 above. Davemc0 (talk) 17:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]