Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cemeteries

Tagging cemetery articles with WikiProject Cemeteries talkpage banner

Hi Ser Amantio di Nicolao. Remembering how helpful you were with tagging WP:WPWW article talkpages with the WPWW talkpage banner when we started up that WikiProject in 2014, I draw your attention to this new WikiProject and hope you can help us with our talkpage tagging campaign. No rush! Whenever you have time/inclination.

• The template is: {{WikiProject Cemeteries}}.
• The articles to tag are those associated with the subcats of Category:Cemeteries, but not all the subcats. For a start, all of the articles in these subcats are okay to tag: Category:Cemeteries by city, Category:Cemeteries by continent, Category:Cemeteries by continent, Category:Cemeteries by continent, Category:Cemeteries by continent, Category:Cemeteries by continent, Category:Cemeteries by country, Category:Cemeteries by ethnicity, Category:Cemeteries by religion, Category:Military cemeteries, Category:National cemeteries. Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

@FULBERT, DarwIn, and Maor X, would you please review the other subcats of Category:Cemeteries and sort out which subcats have articles which should (or shouldn't) get the {{WikiProject Cemeteries}} talkpage banner, e.g. Category:Vehicle graveyards. Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: Sure thing. I can tackle this tomorrow, most likely. At least make a start of it. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 00:16, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: et. al.: I did a run last night. Caught most of the articles that should be tagged, I think - I'll look again tonight to check on a couple of things. I also tagged a bunch of categories. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:46, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Ser Amantio di Nicolao, Thanks for this; you saved us a lot of time with this automation! I have tried (and failed) to figure out how to work with AWB, and appreciate your help. Let some of us know if you (or anybody you know) may be interested in an informal AWB instruction session. FULBERT (talk) 13:51, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@FULBERT: Sure - I can provides some advice and suggestions one of these weekends, when I have a little time to breathe. (I will say that the trick I used for tagging took me a long time to figure out; it's not immediately obvious.) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:17, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Ser Amantio di Nicolao, thank you; nicely done! w00t! --Rosiestep (talk) 14:23, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Ser Amantio di Nicolao, Fantastic! Thanks. FULBERT (talk) 11:32, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

there doesnt seem to be mention of the elephant in the room

Hi The Death project has a vast amount of work on cemeteries - and is implicit in the very core scope of this new project... A significant number of cemeteries have death as project tags. Also it would well serve this new project to go and drop a comment on the talk page - no mention or correlation might be a carriage without a horse perhaps. Well worth going there and checking things out... JarrahTree 00:56, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Will this WikiProject overlap with the Death WP for all articles on cemeteries? BOZ (talk) 01:14, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I cannot speak for the starting editors - but suspect that the relationship similar to ship/shipwrecks partnership - there could well be some parts of death that do not necessarily overlap... JarrahTree 13:30, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

JarrahTree BOZ Some specific overlap most likely, though I think we also hope this will directly connect with the Wiki Cemeteries User Group and the efforts that are developing with it. --- FULBERT (talk) 14:00, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

JarrahTree, Great point on all counts; will do. Thanks for the suggestion on this. FULBERT (talk) 13:52, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I see no reason why WP:DEATH and this one cannot co-exist, and even complement the mutual efforts. There are multiple Women-related WikiProjects and they all focus on their own aspect, but it works. — Maile (talk) 13:54, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Organized Labour and Wikipedia:WikiProject Socialism are examples of two closely related WikiProjects with overlap of editors, articles and discussions, but it still works somehow. I personally am interested in the cemeteries themselves, but less so on the specific people buried in them, so I'm here but not Wikipedia:WikiProject Death but I totally get why someone else would be involved in both and vice versa. ~ Shushugah (he/him • talk) 14:26, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

The other thing is, now that you bring this up, "Death" could encompass anything. But a cemetery is often the only existing evidence that a community, or group of people, existed. A fine point could probably be argued that anything from Native American burial grounds to the pyramids at Giza, are cemeteries of their place and time. The Native American burial grounds in particular don't necessarily tell us how a people died out, but they sure are evidence that a population once lived there. — Maile (talk) 14:45, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Cemeteries and notability

This past week I had a need to drive in a rather rural area where I have not been before, and drove past several really rural cemeteries in and around small towns. It got me wondering about notability, since none of the ones I passed had Wikipedia articles, Wikidata entries, nor Wikicommons pictures. While there are general guidelines, I am wondering if cemeteries in themselves fit within WikiProject subject-specific notability guidelines, given all cemeteries (or at least those I have seen) in some way will likely pass notability. Now we have a WikiProject on this, I am wondering what others here think about it? --- FULBERT (talk) 11:40, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I would be interested to see what you come up with. I'm not sure how likely small rural cemeteries are to pass the GNG, but I'm sure the majority of cemeteries in cities and even larger ones in smaller areas will have coverage especially if they have been around for a while. BOZ (talk) 15:44, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

In my own experience, smaller cemeteries might pass the notability requirement if they have multiple notable burials. (One such burial is borderline, at best...I'd look for three or more before starting to flesh out an article.) If there are multiple notable burials, but nothing substantial about the history of the cemetery otherwise, I tend to treat it as a sort of disambiguation page. Alternatively, they could be listed on a notable historical register.

Hope some of this is useful. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:38, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

An addendum: Commons is different, to me. I don't see anything wrong with illustrating cemeteries on Commons that don't have Wikipedia articles, and aren't likely to - it's part and parcel of making a record of the world, which is part of what Commons is good for, to me. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 19:14, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Editing advice

Does anybody think we need to develop the Editing advice section? Currently it is empty though it may be useful if anybody wants to make an attempt to develop it. --- FULBERT (talk) 12:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I believe a section on editing advice would be helpful, especially to those who have never created a cemetery page before. Maybe a set of guidelines. I've only created a couple of such articles, plus a few categories on cemeteries. I think cemetery articles are in some ways different. It's always good for a project to have some guidelines, not only for the editors on the articles, but for any challenges that might come along on content and sourcing. The elephant in the room, is that if they use Find A Grave for a source, it will be deleted. And then you might develop a guideline on whether or not it is acceptable to list under "External links", the main Find A Grave link for a given cemetery. There are opposing views on that subject. And like any other article space, any burials listed need a source. Thank you for creating this project. — Maile (talk) 17:58, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Established source and naming guidelines needed

Perhaps this project could establish some guidelines on how to contest AFD for notability. You can find sources galore, but most of them are references from genealogy sites. And even if you find one or two sources that are not genealogy sites, you're likely to get, "...that source is nothing, a mere mention ... " or something similar. If a cemetery is part of NRHP, no issue. If it's any other source, it's almost wide-open for anyone to go through and put a whole string of cemeteries up for deletion. It is a challenge to find legit sources for cemeteries, and even within that, it's easy for someone to AFD based on only one or two notable burials in a notable cemetery. Not all sources list every single individual buried in that area. We need concrete standards to back up our contesting of AFD.

Also, the naming of the cemetery should be exactly how the state/town/locale lists it. I went through something a few years back with an editor wanting to rename cemeteries that were officially given ethnic names, to the English equivalent of "county cemetery" or whatever it might be. In a project where anybody can edit, any determined passing editor can get a bee in their bonnet about converting every non-English wording to English. — Maile (talk) 18:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Maile66, I agree this is a need, and am wondering what the best practical next steps may be? FULBERT (talk) 18:24, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

Some cemetery entries have been flagged for deletion:

• Artondale Cemetery - sourced this one - removed tag.— Maile (talk) 17:48, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
• Calvary Cemetery (Mt. Angel, Oregon)
• Camas Cemetery - sourced this one - removed tag.— Maile (talk) 17:48, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
• Cedar Grove Cemetery (Franklin, Somerset County, New Jersey) (referenced and removed prod) Lightburst (talk) 19:53, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
• Mulkey Cemetery
• Philip Linn Pioneer Cemetery
• Pine Grove Cemetery (Corry, Pennsylvania)
• Saint Joseph Cemetery (Gresham, Oregon)
• Saint Mary's Cemetery (Pennsylvania)

---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

• Immaculate Conception Cemetery (Oklahoma City) ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

  Another Believer, Thanks for sharing these. Is there a way for this information to be made available automatically on this site? FULBERT (talk) 18:23, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

  I'm not sure what you mean. Can you clarify? Do you mean article alerts? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:29, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

  Another Believer, What is that slapping head emoji again?! Yes, that is what I meant, article alerts. It would be great to integrate them into the project page itself. FULBERT (talk) 18:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

• Douglass Cemetery ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:31, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

New userbox

I made a userbox for this WikiProject - Wikipedia:WikiProject Cemeteries/Userbox Medarduss (talk) 20:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Very good. Thank you for doing this. — Maile (talk) 20:51, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Cemeteries by decade/century of establishment

There is a new tree of categories I started which is directly interested with this project. See Category:Cemeteries by century of establishment and please help populate! User:Namiba 15:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Notice of Find a Grave as a WP External link discussion

A discussion about posting Find a Grave webpages as an External link is underway at the Reliable sources/Perennial sources talk page. – S. Rich (talk) 20:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

The National Map Corps & Find a Grave cemetery listings

The National Map Corps, part of the United States Geological Survey, has an Authoritative Sources list, which includes cemeteries posted by Find a Grave. "These [cemetery listings] are authoritative if the entry has photos and the number of interments/burials recorded." With an authoritative, official US government source giving its blessing to Find a Grave cemetery listings it is time to turn away from the individual opinions and prejudices of Wikipedia editors. Find a Grave information, about cemeteries, should be allowed as a Reliable Source and External Link. Comments? – S. Rich (talk) 15:08, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Addition of an article

I've added the article about Cefn Golau as being within the scope of WikiProject Cemeteries. I hope to improve the article, for example by adding 'Cholera Cemetery' to its name, and am open to suggestions about how it can currently be improved.John Desmond (talk) 15:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

I'd love some eyes and feedback on sandbox draft for the Jewish Community Memory Garden

Hi all, I don't usually write about cemetery-related content, but am currently writing a page and would love feedback/suggestions. It is about the first space in the US for Jewish individuals to acknowledge miscarrages, stillborns, and newborn deaths. It abuts a Jewish cemetery and is on the cemetery's land. However, as fetuses and newborns are not considered "life" by Jewish law and tradition, it is against Jewish law for cemeteries to include spaces for them. As a result, this project is quite significant, and came into being due to largescale interest in the greater San Francisco, CA, USA, Jewish community. [Jewish Community Memory Garden]

In any event, I had some unusual (for me) challenges in writing this article, and would be grateful for feedback.

Thank you,

Oughtta Be Otters (talk) 20:50, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: if after you get it how you want it, and would like an infobox in the upper right hand corner: Template:Infobox cemetery and Template:Infobox cemetery/sandbox. — Maile (talk) 23:00, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

OK, I've finished reading the whole thing, Maybe you don't need an infobox. The article itself is incredibly touching, and insightful for non-Jewish readers. I don't feel I have the knowledge to critique how you wrote this, or the content therein. I think you've done a really good job. — Maile (talk) 00:48, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

@Maile66 Thank you so much for taking the time to read the draft. I am glad to know that it makes sense. It is a radical departure within the world of Jewish practice and Jewish cemeteries, so it is meaningful to me to get the article started and I want to make it work for all readers. Thank you for the feedback. Oughtta Be Otters (talk) 15:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

AfD: St. Mary's Cemetery (Washington, D.C.)

• St. Mary's Cemetery (Washington, D.C.)

---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)