Talk:Stefanos Tsitsipas

Greek translation help

Does anyone know what the following Greek sentence means? It is from this article https://www.protothema.gr/sports/article/803462/wimbledon-simera-o-agonas-tou-tsitsipa-poio-einai-to-19hrono-hruso-agori-tou-tenis/, but I do not trust the translation.

«Είµαι µέλος µιας πολύτεκνης οικογένειας µε τέσσερα παιδιά. Οι γονείς µου δεν µπορούσαν να στηρίξουν την προσπάθειά µου µόνο από τη δική τους τσέπη. Ταξίδια, προπονητές και camp προετοιµασίας κοστίζουν µια περιουσία. Αν δεν υπήρχε η δίδυµη αδελφή της µητέρας µου, πρώην τενίστρια και µέλος της εθνικής οµάδας της πρώην Σοβιετικής Ενωσης και εκείνη, που υπήρξε αρωγός µου από την πρώτη στιγµή, δεν ξέρω αν θα τα είχα καταφέρει. Της χρωστώ πολλά και της είµαι ευγνώµων»

"I am a member of a multi-child family with four children. My parents could not support my financially demanding effort on their own. All those travels, coaches and training camps cost a fortune. If it were not for my mother's twin sister, an ex-tennis player herself, and member of the Soviet Union's national team, who was there to help me from the very beginning, i am not sure i would have made it. I owe her a lot and i am grateful to her." - Radiphus (talk) 17:59, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

The claim about his mother's twin sister puzzles me though. There is no mention of a twin sister in his mother's article and I cannot find any another Salnikova besides Stefanos' mother in the records of the Soviet Union's Fed Cup team or their Hopman Cup team, nor can I find any Salnikova representing the Soviet Union at the Olympics. So, who is this mysterious twin sister of Julia and which "Soviet Union national team" was she a member of?Tvx1 01:44, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't think she played Fed Cup, but she does exist. Here is a picture of Tsitsipas with his mother and aunt. And here is a brief mention of them playing together in a tournament (on page 5). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 02:35, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the second source. I didn't really doubt she actually existed but now at least we know her name: Alla Salnikova. Nevertheless I cannot find a record of any Alla Salnikova, or (having considered she could have used a married name) even any lady with the given name Alla, competing for one of the Soviet Union national tennis teams or at the Olympics. Looking more into the source and the languages I think an error of translation might have taken place. The above sentence about the mother's sister can be more literally translated as "If it were not for the twin sister of my mother, an ex-tennis player herself, and member of the Soviet Union's national team, who was there to help me from the very beginning, i am not sure i would have made it." and it looks like the "member of the Soviet Union's national team" actually referred to the mother and not her sister.Tvx1 03:01, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

I think an error of translation might have taken place.

Perhaps, "δίδυµη αδελφή της µητέρας µου" should have been translated to "twin sister of my mother", instead of "my mother's twin sister", so that "my mother" would be mentioned last (as does "µητέρας µου" in the Greek text), making it more natural to link the parenthetical phrase "an ex-tennis player herself" to his mother. To be honest, even in the Greek text, someone without any knowledge (like me, who came here from WikiProject Greece) could think that he is referring to either of them. The fact that the rest of the sentece is all about his aunt may have nudged my perception towards the wrong way. Radiphus (talk) 02:06, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Also, what level were the Berlin Indoor Championships. It don't see Julia's doubles title there listed in her article.Tvx1 03:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Good article worry

I like what's been done with this article but one thing worries me about asking for Good status. This page is likely very unstable if Tsitsipas continues to do well the rest of the season. What will likely happen is this article will get split in two with most of the charts heading to a "Stephanos Tsisipas career statistics" article. It's what always happens to prominent tennis players...Madison Keys is an example. Maybe it makes no difference but I just wanted to make sure people realize the likely outcome of the article. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:02, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

That would be fine. Stability has to do with content disputes. Splitting the charts into a separate article doesn't count as being unstable. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:39, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

I wasn't sure how that worked. Thanks for the info. Fyunck(click) (talk) 01:08, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

It's not only about content disputes. Wikipedia does not generally promote articles on highly notable active sportspeople to Good Article status. This is because they evolve quickly and within a couple of months they could be massively different to the version that was judged to meet the GA criteria.Tvx1 02:52, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Stefanos Tsitsipas/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Matt294069 (talk · contribs) 02:50, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

Hopefully this time I will be able to do it. Matt294069 (talk) 02:50, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Lead

• ...is a Greek professional tennis player. - You can remove the link here for Greece as that isn't relevant.
  • Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:57, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• He is the youngest player ranked in the top 10 - This seems like it's goes in WP:TRIVIAL
  • Kept. Men's tennis has been dominated by older players in recent years (Seven of the current top 10 players, including the top three, are 29 or older. Additionally, no player currently under 30 years old has won a major title.). So, it is a big deal to be the youngest player in the top 10. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:57, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...at the Stockholm Open towards the end of 2018, - When did he win the title?
  • Now that he won another title last week, I replaced this sentence with the number of titles he has won (the typical format for tennis players who have won multiple titles). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:57, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Early life and background

• No mention of the fact that she was a Fed Cup player for the Soviet Union.
  • Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Stefanos has three younger siblings, including two brothers Petros and Pavlos, and a sister Elisavet. All of his siblings are also tennis players. - This sentence could be worked on as it seems like the second sentence is just added on.
  • Re-worded to: "Stefanos has three younger siblings Petros, Pavlos, and Elisavet, all of whom are also tennis players." Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• He said, "My first memory is to be three and to hit balls with my father in the gap... - Who said that?
  • Clarified Stefanos said that. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...at the age of six, and has long since continued to train there. - That second part of the sentence doesn't seem to be needed here.
  • It is typical to include where players have trained in their youth. It is interesting to note that he continued to play at the same place where he started out even as a teenager. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Junior career

• Tsitsipas is a former world No. 1 junior - This sentence just seems added on, especially when it's put into the article later on.
  • This is a topic sentence for the entire section. It's like the first sentence of the lead. You don't "need" to mention that Tsitsipas is a professional tennis player in the first sentence of the article because that will be mentioned again later in the lead. But it is still helpful to do so to set up the rest of the section. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• This entire first paragraph just sounds like a list instead of what it should be in a article and that is a encyclopedia.
  • I'm not so sure what you mean here. The paragraph is written largely chronologically, and various sets of sentences are linked together. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• when he partnered with Estonian player Kenneth Raisma - Estonia isn't suppose to be linked
  • Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Eleni Daniilidou had also won a junior Grand Slam doubles title in 1999 while representing Greece. - Is this sentence really needed?
  • Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Much like the first paragraph, the second one seems "listy" if that is the correct way of putting it.
  • Same as above. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Professional career

2013–17: Top 100, ATP semifinal, top 10 victory

• ...would go on to win a total of eleven, - Eleven what?
  • Added "such titles" Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...crack the top 200 later that month. - What month was this?
  • Clarified "October". Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Also towards the end of that month, - You could easily remove Also in this and it would still make sense.
  • Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...in the opening round, but was unable to qualify. - Who did he lose to?
  • Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...as a qualifier at the French Open, but lost to Ivo Karlović. - Which round was this?
  • Added in his first match. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Overall, he did qualify for a tour-best eight events - You could do some reshape this sentence to change this to past tense and remove the tour-best even though it might be something interesting.
  • Changed to "he qualified". Kept "tour-best" because it is simple way to express that eight is a lot. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...became the first Greek player to be ranked in the top 100 - You could possibly add ever after first. You could also incorporate that sentence into the previous one in some way.
  • Left out, since "first" says the same thing. Re-worded to "With this run, Tsitsipas became the first Greek player to be ranked in the top 100 of the ATP rankings, accomplishing the feat at the age of 19. He also reached a high enough ranking to be named an alternate for the Next Gen ATP Finals." Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

2018: Breakthrough, Masters final, top 15

• ...his best result in the rest of the early-year hard court season was another quarterfinal at the Dubai Tennis Championships. - You could shrink this part of the sentence, to only say that he reached the quarter finals of the Dubai Tennis Championships or something similar.
  • You need to specify that this is only for the beginning of the season. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...where tennis is still not a widely popular sport. - You could instead go where tennis isn't a widely popular sport.
  • Removed "still". Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...at the Estoril Open, he reached another semifinal and picked up a third career top ten victory - This sentence doesn't really flow in a way that sort of makes sense.
  • Split into two sentences. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• He played the next Grand Slam at Wimbledon seeded for first time at No. 31. - It properly needs a reference here.
  • Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ... and produced his best result at a major tournament, a fourth... - This applies that this was his best ever result in a Grand Slam which we know is not true now.
  • Added "at the time" Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...defeating No. 8 Dominic Thiem, No. 10 Novak Djokovic, No. 3 Alexander Zverev, and No. 6 Kevin Anderson in succession. - This is properly for further up in the article but do really need the rankings at the time of the event.
  • I included the rankings to specify which top ten players he defeated. I assume when someone reads that he defeated four top ten players, they would want to know if he defeated something closer to No. 1, 2, 3, and 4 or No. 7, 8, 9, and 10. (The answer is in-between.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...saved match points in the latter two matches. Which latter matches are we talking about here?
  • "latter two" means the same as "last two" Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...20th birthday, but in a closer match than their first encounter. - You could remove the comma and go 20th birthday in a closer...
  • Done. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...made his main draw debut, but was upset in the second round - State something about his 1st US Open because it doesn't look like that at the time.
  • That is covered in the 2017 section. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

2019: Australian Open semifinal, top 10

• They finished in a three-way tie for first in their round-robin group, - Is this section of the article needed or maybe better incorporated in some way.
  • Yes, unfortunately, the tiebreak criteria is confusing. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...and he also lost a match against Roger Federer. - This seems tagged on at the end.
  • Changed to "Tsitsipas's only singles win was against Frances Tiafoe, while one of his losses was against Roger Federer."
• ...runner-up to Roger Federer - You could properly just have "runner-up to Federer..."
  • Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Playing style

• Australian Open semifinal on this surface - You can properly remove the "on this service" section
  • Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:38, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• ...players Greg Rusedski and Annabel Croft have both praised Tsitsipas's on-court - You mention Greg Rusedski comments but not Croft's comments in this section.
  • Croft's comments are similar to Rusedski's, so I only paraphrased what she said. Sportsfan77777 (talk)

Personal life

• Is there a better reference for him supporting AEK Athens other than the YT video.
  • Replaced. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:40, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• This might be just personal preference but don't try and start every paragraph with the same word instead try and shake things around.
  • Changed the first sentence of the third paragraph. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:40, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Career statistics

• Seems fine there

References

• Most of the older ATP World Tour links have got the changed domain simple on it so it would probably be good idea to change those.
  • Updated. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• State in more detail what Reference 3 and 4 is, as it seems to be to the same website despite it being different.
  • Removed. They weren't supposed to be there. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Reference 13 is linked as suspicious so you would probably would have to change that.
  • It works for me. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Reference 15, 17, 21, 23 and 24 seems like it needs to have a better reference as that is coming from a blog which might include some other stuff into that mix.
  • Zoo Tennis isn't a blog. It's just hosted on the blogspot website. The articles are on the site have a similar format to those found on the ATP Tour website or Tennis.com. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:37, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Final Comments

So the article does seems OK for now but it's not something that can easily be a GA in it's current state. With a few of these changes, then it would be good. The only worry that I have with this, is the potential for WP:RECENTISM to come into play with this current player. Matt294069 (talk) 03:09, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, Matt294069! I replied to everything above. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:36, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

With regard to the recentism comment, two of the Featured Article and Featured List coordinators discussed how to handle current athletes in featured content right here. One of them said, "For article review purposes, all I ask is that an article meet the standards of the process when I review it," which the other seemed to agree with. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:42, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Looking through the article changes and I think they are good enough to be Good article. Just remember to keep the Good Article standard going for this article and well done Sportsfan77777 for bringing this to a GA. Matt294069 (talk) 09:56, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• StefanosTsitsipas1.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:23, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Replacement of the principal image.

Tsitsipas' principal image used on his profile is three years old and therefore is not up to date. I have uploaded an image of superior quality today which is quite recent. I would request that my image is replaced in place of the older image which is from 2018. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123yali (talk • contribs) 11:28, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

File:Stefanos Tsitsipas at the French Open 2021.jpeg

Stefanos Tsitsipas at the French open. He made his first ever grand slam final at this event.

At Teahouse, you have been asked to confirm that this is a photo you yourself took. Here, you call it "my image", but there is a strong suspicion that you copied this from a copyright protected source, even though at Commons you claim that you hold the copyright. David notMD (talk) 12:46, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Unless User:123yali is Christophe Archambault, then any claim of taking the picture himself is an outright lie. -- Whpq (talk) 13:50, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

I apologise for writing my image. I realise that it sounds as if I took the image but all I meant was to say that the image I uploaded should be used. I didn't realise that it was licensed. I should have known better.

123yali (talk) 13:36, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Toilet breaks

The fact of his frequent and long toilet breaks, which he use as a tactical move and which were criticized by many tennis players as Murray, Zverev and Mannarino, should be added in this article in my opinion.--User:Tomcat7 (talk) 08:16, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I think it is a notable controversy, a subject of many articles in reliable sources. You can add it in an unbiased, objective manner. You have to make sure you don't insert your own perspective or opinion into it, such as "he uses it as a tactical move", when you cannot prove it. Also, please make sure you don't repeat lies widely repeated on social media such as Andy Murray's repeated "20 minutes" misinformation. You can only cite facts from reliable sources, without adding your own analysis.—J. M. (talk) 17:46, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Doubles wildcard "misuse" section title

This section should be retitled to something not as inflammatory. We must take BLP into account here. My tightness (talk) 03:39, 28 June 2023 (UTC)