User talk:AnnekeBart

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• User:AnnekeBart/archive April 2010 - September 2010
• User:AnnekeBart/archive2 September 2010 - October 2010
• User:AnnekeBart/archive3 October 2010 - March 2011
• User:AnnekeBart/archive4 March 2011 - May 2011

Mentioned at WP:ANI

Hello AnnekeBart. Your name has been mentioned at WP:ANI#EdJohnston - administrative harassment and censorship. The discussion is about Giulio Clovio. You may add your own comment there if you wish. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 21:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know Ed. It was actually already closed before I could give any response. :) The decision by Sandstein is entirely correct. Hopefully that's the end of this business. --AB (talk) 16:00, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Nebet

Are names of queen Nebet and vizier Nebet connected? Because their hieroglyphs are not the same.-Michelle

The names are close, but the Queen's name is spelled different (as you mentioned). I think that sometimes happens. I have seen different spellings for Meritaten (dau of Akhenaten) as well. --AB (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

You probably didn't understand my question - are their names the same, but just written on the other way? Do you remember Persenet? You said me that senet can be "sister" or "game". The same is with this. Female vizier Nebet had the name which means "lady", female form of neb ("lord"). Is queen's name with the same meaning, or just sounds like vizier's name?

I did misunderstand you :) And the answer here is that I don't know. I do not know if a different spelling like the one for Nebet would influence the actual meaning of the name. --AB (talk) 11:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)--AB (talk) 11:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

request

Hi. I have written a new version of the article Dedi. It can be found here. I would be so happy if you could read over and help me setting links and help for correct english. I will please an administrator in de.wikipedia to settle the history of the german article, since the workshop version is an word-by-word translation. With best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 21:51, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Looks good at first glance :-) It would be nice to have the references as inline references. You have some footnotes, but it is often recommended that the references be given as inline references to help with verifiability. I am extremely busy right now, so I would like to look at it further but do not know when I will have time for it. --AB (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

As ye wish, mylady. ;-) I`ve been busy again and arranged the references anew. Hope it is better now? best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 00:32, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Nice :) I did some editing. There are a couple of sentences that I did not understand. I edited them out, but you can still see them in edit mode. I would have to reread it again, but it's getting late :) --AB (talk) 03:15, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi there.^^ Thanks for corrections. But I have become curious about your note, that you couldn`t find the passages after Khufu`s recieving of the prophecy from Dedi.

Now, I really hope that I don`t sound smart-alec or snotty. I really don`t mean it bad!!! But I wonder which translation you may have read. The only absolute accurate translation of the whole story can be found in the books of Verena Lepper (I own one), Adolf Ermann and Miriam Liechtheim. Ok, the first two books are written in german, so they are "of no use" for you?

What me keeps busy are two special passages: The first is about the sanctuary of Thot. The problem is, that the Papyrus Westcar uses a word that can be translated in so many ways, that egyptologist prefer to let it be untranslated. The Papyrus gives , to be readed as Iput. Lepper and Erman argue, that it was a bit too easy to merely translate it with "chamber", since furthermore meanings of iput are: shrine, building, harem or storage room.

"reckoning" Gardiner "Egyptian Grammar p 553 O45 harim 142.0.102.47 (talk) 00:49, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

The second passage in question is the one with the second bird that Dedi plucks. The Westcar gives

(V)

, to be readed as chet`aa-Bird, which means "the bird with the long, wooden legs". Lepper, Liechtheim and Erman are curious about this, since the name of that bird appears now and then in offering inscriptions during the old and middle kingdom, but the bird itself is never depicted! Lepper for example thinks of a small heron or a Eurasian Bittern. But none of the egyptologists makes an commitment to a translation as "waterfowl".

(Alternate portravals) of the "wooden-legged bird",
Note: the wood pillar hieroglyph,

(horizontal) (vertical)

is used to mean "great", or implied 'greatest'-(Egyptian language "aa"), so referring to the Great Wooden-legged Bird-(is it also onomatopoeic?)(Aahh!)Mmcannis (talk) 14:19, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

There`s a nice and widely reaching translation in english that is very close to Lepper`s and Ermanns one: Transcription and Translating of Papyrus Westcar (Berlin Papyrus 3033) into Englisch by Transkription Blackman (1988) (PDF-File). Hope you joy. ;-) with best regards; --Nephiliskos (talk) 11:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

LOL Not smart-alecky or snotty at all! I was a bit tired last night and I probably should have posted some of my changes as questions below your text instead. You clearly know much more about this than I do, so I am not going to be upset at all if you change things back the way they were. I was looking at an online translation [1] which is said to be adapted from Nederhof and Blackman. I do read German - albeit slowly - and German references are fine. I think our earlier discussion may have been that German references should be added to English ones on wikipedia, but not necessarily replace them? (If I remember the conversation correctly?)

I see your point about the iput translation. I don't know what the best way is to write that up? Maybe use the word iput (in italics) in the text and then actually explain that the translation is not clear, but that it could refer to chambers, shrines, buildings, etc. But even Nederhof's translation uses "chambers" as the translation.

For the decapitated animals: the translation you provided mentions a goose, a Khtaa-goose and a bull. Don't know, but maybe summarizing that as two different birds and a bull might be the easiest way to represent that in the article?

I hopefully will have a bit more time to look at it again this evening. I really like the article you wrote by the way. It's a definite improvement over what there is right now. Regards Anneke --AB (talk) 12:17, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your plaudit, that makes mee feel mega-happy.^^ I was busy again and arranged the references anew again. Now I have setted refs to the unsure passages. I think there shall be more explanation for the reader, too. I have thought about writing articles about the other heros of the Westcar-Papyrus, but I shall find a administrator, who could do an adjustment of the german versions, cuz I did translations of them. Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 12:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

If you are talking about queen Iput, I think her name is without meaning, just written on hieroglyphs as ipwt. For Anneke: I can't find any more information about Meresankh and Raherka. - Michelle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.53.179.232 (talk) 13:50, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. No, the Iput of Papyrus Westcar is some kind of object or place, no person. Khufu wonders about the number of the Iput inside the sanctuary of Thot. ;-) Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 13:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I can understand you confusion but "The number of" = the "reckoning"

(edit conflict)No we are not talking about Queen Iput, but rather the word iput as used in the Westcar papyrus. In that setting it refers to a chamber/shrine/building. The meaning of the word is somewhat unclear.

Re:Meresankh and Raherka, there is not a lot of information about these people, which is exactly the problem I was pointing out. It is difficult/impossible to write a good wikipedia article if there is no solid coverage of them in several good secondary sources (i.e. books and refereed articles). --AB (talk) 13:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I proudly present: Dedi!^^ Best regards; --Nephiliskos (talk) 17:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

A new hero of the Westcar is in the workshop.^^ Best regards; --Nephiliskos (talk) 20:03, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to seeing it. --AB (talk) 20:09, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

It´s finished. --Nephiliskos (talk) 20:22, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I was a bit slow and did not realize it was here. Looks great. I made some (few) minor changes. Looks good! And you don't have to mention me when you post it (like you did in the edit summary for Dedi). You are doing all the real work. I'm just looking it over. :-) --AB (talk) 20:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, ok, sorry.^^ Then I will ask an admin for history adjustment and a new article will be born. ^^ best regards; --Nephiliskos (talk) 20:40, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem at all. Just meant to save you some typing (kidding). And don't go through the trouble of a history adjustment. I think that may be a waste of your time. The new article is a nice idea. I like the seperate pages for the different magicians. Cheers --AB (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, then... tadaaa!.^^ Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 21:04, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Very nice article! --AB (talk) 22:57, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanx!^^ In my workshop there`s the third hero of the Westcar! --Nephiliskos (talk) 23:02, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Raherka and Meresankh

What do you think about this - Raherka and Meresankh? We have links, true statements and Meresankh is redirected to Raherka.--Mychele (talk) 07:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

That is much better :-) Excellent solution. I added some information about the sculpture based on the Louvre page. I still put on the "Orphan tag" because there is only one other page linking to it and that is a disambiguation page. But this is a nice short article. And who knows, maybe other publications will become available for this statue. It is a remarkable piece. I am somewhat surprised it does not show up in more of the literature. Mychele, have you seen anything about where this statue was found? Is it from Giza? Or is the provenance not known? --AB (talk) 12:14, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Never mind :-) Found the information. The statue probably comes from Mastaba D 37 in Giza. I included the info in the article. And found some ways to link to Raherka and Meresankh from other articles so it's not an orphan article any more. --AB (talk) 16:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Anne, I think we can be a great team here. Can you tell me who are some other users interested in AE? I know for Alensha and MMcanis.-Michelle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.12.113 (talk) 17:36, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think that it worked out quite well on this one. I should "warn" you though. I will not have a lot of time to work on articles. I will be very busy with work. --AB (talk) 17:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Hemetre

I heard that there are so called "good articles". According to me, this one - Hemetre - could be recognised as one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.12.113 (talk) 17:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure it will satisfy the Wikipedia:Good article criteria. The lead section does not really summarize the page all that well. It is accurate and verifiable and fairly stable. You can nominate it and see what happens. --AB (talk) 17:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Dedi again

Hi. I have worked my ass off to write down the whole conversation between king Khufu and Dedi. Please take a look into the article. What you see now is - dare I say - the most accurate and up-to-date translation. Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 03:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK issue

Hello, could you help resolve the DYK issue here for the article Dedi? The user Nephiliskos asked that I discuss the issue with you. Thanks.--William S. Saturn (talk) 21:12, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

@AnnekeBart: The problem is: It`s my first DYK-tryout, the article is well cited, as you know. I`m trying doggetly to explain to William S. Saturn, that all speeches in the article are cited perfectly by the literature, too. It looks a bit like there´s intrustment because some of the books are in a -for users of this Wikipedia- in a foreign language. It begins to feel like a inquisition questioning. :D I thought it`s just for DYK, not for a excellent-candidacy... Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 00:07, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but I have no time at this point. Doesn't look like I will be able to "come up for air" until sometime next week.--AB (talk) 04:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

No need to excuse, Anneke. In extremo I can re-start a try for DYK, no problem. Take your time, privat life is always more important. ;-) Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 05:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear Anneke, I see you come back. It's nice to see you again. Stating that Khenut could be mother of Iput is not my original idea. We cannot put away the possibility. - Michelle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.135.191 (talk) 07:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

If it is not your idea then you need to provide the source. The publication where that is mentioned is needed. --AB (talk) 16:49, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Duplicated articles?

I don't see why we have two articles on Amun's high priests, I've raised this at the project page. Since you've edited both I presume you see a reason, but I think we could have just one. Dougweller (talk) 18:02, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I edited both pages because that's how I found the information displayed on Wikipedia. The only reason I can think of for splitting it up that way is because the Theban High Priests of Amun were much more powerful than regular high priests and were in fact de facto rulers of that region. Having said that I think the two pages could be merged. The increased political power of these Priests could be explained within the article. The name "Theban High Priests of Amun" is rather a bad choice for the other article. The other high priests also held their office in Thebes. --AB (talk) 20:49, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Weneg (pharaoh)

Hi. I´ve extended the article, hope you like it. ;-) Best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 21:53, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Hemen edit

Please refer to original reference (AnnekeBart edit)

and current reference - see below p.68 Petrie Drift chambers (talk) 14:41, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

And how is this in improvement? The website I used as a reference quotes a solid publucation from 1954: Henri Wild, Statue de Hor-Néfer au Musée des Beaux-Arts de Lausanne, BIFAO 54 (1954) pp.173-222. Yours is an old text from 1938 by Petrie? Replacing a proper citation by one with an older text is not exactly an improvement. --AB (talk) 15:24, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

anyway found this http://www.jstor.org/pss/3822006 which possibly links to other sites with relevant arguments,although jstor isn't open sourceDrift chambers (talk) 19:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I have access to JSTOR, so I can take a look at that paper and see if there is information we can add to the article. Or at least add it as a reference. Cheers Anneke --AB (talk) 19:42, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Help!

Sorry to bug ye, but I get problems. Can you help meh please? Best wishes.--Nephiliskos (talk) 19:09, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I will take a look at it and see if the changes you proposed can be merged into the article instead of replacing parts of it. Cheers - Anneke --AB (talk) 19:40, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Request

Hi, Captmondo!^^ I wonder if it made sense to discuss the new hiero-boxes I used to present the names of the early kings. I see some problems with the older boxes:

• No horus-name, no gold-name, no nebtj-name... NOTHING. The old boxes give no useful information, and if so, these informations are redundant, incorrect or incomplete.
• The old boxes call upon the mommahs and poppahs of the early kings. This is highly problematic, since Egyptologists are pretty unsure about any interfamiliar kinships. Few exception are queen Meritneith and queen Hetep-herj-nebtj (the mom of Djoser). Their names appear on seal impressions, together with their titles declaring them as king´s moms. Yes, I know, the Palermostone calles some king´s mommahs, too. But their identities are questioned, because their names do not appear in the early dynastic tombs.
• The German boxes I use beat us the opportunity to present all important names of the early kings in words and signs. In german Wikipedia a broad palette of different hiero-boxes also give the chance to even sho titles and rare name forms.

It´s not about meh, ok... I rlly just wonder if it was possible to introduce and use the new boxes instead of the old ones. I´m sure that you will agree with meh after taking a closer look tot it. With best regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 17:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)PS: I please everyone to respond at mah talk page, so I get it when You are on.

Seeking Your Opinion on Updating the Pharaoh Infobox

Hello there:

Just wanted to point out a proposed change to the Pharaoh infobox that I have made, and would value your opinion on.

Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 16:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --Nephiliskos (talk) 19:04, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

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Plea

Meanwhile I was VERY busy. I thought some kind of "congress" was good in whih everyone who assisted and advised meh so generously shall be there, to discuss the up-to-date sutuation. Is my administrating the new box good? Are there still questions? Pls take some moments and join the discussion. Thx. Cheers;--Nephiliskos (talk) 18:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas, dear Anneke!--Mychele (talk)

Looking for Anything Picture-wise for Your Ancient Egyptian Articles?

Hello there -- long time no speak! Sorry, have been busy with a number of things for a while, and have not been very active here since helping to bring the Rosetta Stone up to Featured status last year.

Business will take me to Cambridge, U.K. next week, and am planning on visiting the extensive Ancient Egyptian collection at the Fitzwilliam Museum while there and I plan on bringing my camera along (assuming non-flash photography is allowed). Is there anything you will like me to be on the look-out for to help illustrate any of the articles you have an interest in?

Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 15:04, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello, dear Annie! Happy Easter! I am not longer interested in AE as before, but I will always remember you!-Your Mychele (talk)

Frohe Ostern! :D Cheers! --Nephiliskos (talk) 14:06, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks! Frohe Ostern, too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.139.11.149 (talk) 18:22, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Anneke! Can you, please, help me? Do you know how to collect all talk in archives? I saw this on some talk pages. Answer when you will have a time, it's not important. See you! - Mychele

Khufu

Hi. Please read and enjoy the new Khufu!^^ Greetz;--Nephiliskos (talk) 18:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Dear Anne! Do you remember my first question about Nefermaat and Itet? And your investigation about Princess Hetepheres... I am now going on a Wikibreak. I do not know how long my Wikibreak would last, but if you see this message, please, help Nephiliskos, who is very interested in AE and expanded so many articles. I cannot help him in next several months. But above all this, thank you! You are my friend. Until we meet again! – Hathorhotep (Miha (talk) 14:37, 26 August 2012 (UTC))

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I removed the 44 in: "... group title the Old Kingdom. The 44 Fifth Dynasty dates approximately"

from the article Fifth Dynasty of Egypt. I hope i was correct in doing so, and I think you will know if it's right or not since you have edited the article before.76.218.104.120 (talk) 05:53, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Rhind papyrus

Could you look at the latest edits at Horus? If this is right, it seems to contradict your edits at Rhind Mathematical Papyrus on Horus eye fractions. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 13:53, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I do not see which edits that would be? The very latest changes to Horus are about immaculate conception it seems? I do not quite understand what I should be looking at. --AB (talk) 18:49, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Many many apologies, both for my delay in responding and my mentioning the wrong article (it's Eye of Horus. See [2]. Dougweller (talk) 11:57, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Viceroys of Kush

Anneke, in your Wikipedia article "Ahmose called Turo", you mention confidently that "Ahmose called Turo was Viceroy of Kush under Amenhotep I and Tuthmosis I". As far as I could find, and also mentioned in your article, he is only called "king's son"'. The same is true for all his successors (Seni, Nehi, Usersatet, Amenhotep, Merymose). According to 'A History of Ancient Egypt' by Marc van de Mieroop, the first mention of 'King's so of Kush' is Thutmose IV's reign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.50.206.165 (talk) 18:21, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

That is based on the article The Viceroys of Ethiopia by George A. Reisner The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, Vol. 6, No. 1. (Jan., 1920), pp. 28-55. The earlier title King's Son was later expanded to read King's Son of Kush, but they were viceroys of Kush no matter which version of the title they used. Maybe that should be made more clear on the Viceroy of Kush page? ---AB (talk) 18:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

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Gebel el-Silsila

Radio programs are perfectly acceptable sources as they are one of many types of media. Books are another media form, the one I prefer personally the most (just like you do). Besides, it makes it more interesting for the using Wikipedian to know that there is an archived audio recording out there. The present referencing for the entire article is still inadequate but undoubtedly will be improved upon [an issue that plagues all of Wikipedia]. I was aware of the items and Gebel el-Silsila before I found the archived program. Just decided to dig a little to improve referencing. I think adding referencing is certainly preferable to deleting it! Even the ones you have can be further referenced. If I can find the program I am sure others can too. To prove the point, I am not in the Mid-West or Wisconsin. I am in Los Angeles. On another matter and for your kind general knowledge, Wikipedia discourages bulleted lists of factoids within articles. Wikipedia prefers an article in prose. I think the few shrines and stelae listed are OK for now. Enjoying your input too! To a better Wikipedia! Cheers! Thor Dockweiler (talk) 22:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

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Ramesses XII?

Dear AnnekeBart,

I was wondering if you have seen Ian Mladjov's article here. The evidence is strong that he might exist since he used the rare Amun epithet Mereramun just like Ramesses IX and XI--the other known Ramesside kings rather than meryamun. It is free and interesting. I suppose the Egyptologists will eventually decide. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 21:27, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

• No problem. Here is a photo of this king's cartouche. Some Egyptologists may like the idea of this new king since it resolves the problems in Karl Jansen Winkeln's 1992 thesis that Herihor succeeded Piankh. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 18:42, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

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Cleopatra FAC

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Jebel Barkal

This article was created in Jan 2005, BC added in June 2005 and you changed it to BCE here[3] in June 2010 and it's been BCE since. But see this which I've just reverted. Typical of the editor as I recall. I've warned them and revertedDoug Weller talk 05:11, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

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Hello

Hi, I just joined the Ancient Egypt Wikiproject and have edited KV7. I've also written two articles from scratch, Theban Tomb 159 and Theban Tomb 286. Not sure if I need to notify you or someone else in the group about it. Or are we all just working separately? I don't want to step on anyone's toes or cause anyone additional work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michiganwolverinette (talk • contribs) 05:54, 25 February 2022 (UTC)