Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2013 November
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Reason for previous deletion couple months ago: Delete no indication of notability per WP:WEB, and no significant coverage online from WP:Secondary sources. I spoke to Gogo Dodo on recreating Finnbay due to new sources and info (cause they exposed Time magazine's buff on news item and nokia's f.ck you message on twitter) I think it should be archived on wikipedia. They are linked by trust-able sources: http://www.helsinki.fi/newstudents/index.html (on the right, discover part) http://www.aalto.fi/en/for/international/ http://jyy.fi/en/2013/03/18/jyy-student-news-week-122013/ (bottom) http://www.travelhelsinki.net/notizie/ (publishing their news) http://www.finnfacts.fi/eng/facts-about-finland/useful-links/ http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304747004579228190122617098 http://www.europam.org/review-finnbay-and-global-political-economy/ http://anonyymitelaimet.com/en/?tag=finnbay http://www.welcomeweeks.fi/en/useful-links Here are the new info and sources for the article and would like to add them to the page to improve the article. <redacted> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Campsite55 (talk • contribs) {if you want us to look at a draft, please can you put it somewhere else as posting it here breaks up the formatting of this page. thanks Spartaz Humbug! 20:48, 29 November 2013 (UTC)} Hi, Spartaz, Sure. It was just for you to check it out rather than a suggestion to use it for the new page but I put it on my page for you see it as a draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Campsite55#Finnbay_Draft — Preceding unsigned comment added by Campsite55 (talk • contribs) 22:50, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the article should be restored because now that the 2014 XBIZ Award nominations have been announced, the subject has been nominated for two new non-scene-related awards (Girl/Girl Performer of the Year and Best Actress), thus passing WP:PORNBIO.
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- this afd was a Keep. However the arguements were truly terrible. The "keep" voters tried to say it is notable because sources probably exist even though they did not provide any. I dont buy that we wouldn't be able to find any sources because this character is not that old. Other keeps tried to inherit notablity from the show. Beerest 2 talk 01:31, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
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Hi, I don't believe Delete !voters correctly applied WP:BLP1E in this case. For BLP1E it must pass all three criteria, including #3 which says: "It is not the case the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial and well-documented". It goes on to say "The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources." Looking at the sources, it appears to have WP:PERSISTENCE. Non-persistence means: "only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion". The media has covered it over years, even crossing over to a book of chapter length. Persistent coverage of an event makes it significant, which disqualifies it from BLP1E per criteria #3, thus invalidating the Delete votes in the AfD leaving basically only my single Keep. I would be OK with a relist too since a discussion of persistence didn't come up during the AfD (I wasn't paying close enough attention). Green Cardamom (talk) 18:44, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
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I closed this discussion about a group of redirects as no consensus. I explained my reasoning for doing so in the closing statement (very basically the arguments presented about the actual redirects under discussion were about balanced), and suggested that renominating in a different way would be more likely to result in consensus. Two of the participants have voluminously objected to my reading of the discussion as no consensus at my talk page (user talk:Thryduulf/archive12#"WTF?" regarding an RfD close) where I have attempted to explain further. John Vandenberg believes that my having participated in a discussion a few years ago about T: redirects means I am not a neutral regarding this discussion. Accordingly I'm bringing the closure here for review. Thryduulf (talk) 09:06, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Overturn into deletion. Mainly from closers reasoning (essentaially throwing out my RfD arguments and replacing them with a personal, outside reasoning), I may have to point to earlier arguments. First there is the "no reason to delete"-argument, landed repeatedly by Paine Ellsworth in this topic (in the RfD too), but nicely disarmed by Anomie early on (in short: "... but there can be other reasons to delete").
This discussion really needs to be closed. Where the heck is Jimbo when you need him? – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 00:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
To which the opposing arguments to delete were, although somewhat weak:
There is also one argument in favor of speedy keep
One final note is that although pageview count is important I have curiously not seen a keep reason if favor of a redirect's age, and particularly with respect to a number of redirects in these batches (some go back as far as 2007 [and have also been nominated twice for some of the same reasons which proves how controversial and upsetting to the wiki any discussion props up regarding the existence of these redirects] while others are as recent as 2011). Therefore, my final verdict on this one would have to be relist for consensus. TeleComNasSprVen (talk • contribs) 22:08, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
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Note that closing admin moved Lingdian (band) to Lingdian, I temporarily undid that by WP:BRD and after discussion with closing admin opened this DRV, but another editor in good faith not knowing this DRV was happening put in a RM, I have undone my WP:BRD and closed the RM as WP:SNOW. Hope that makes life easier all round. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
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Allow recreation There was only one vote for delete in the AfD. This term is indeed a very notable Russian slang term. There are many sources listed in the Russian Wikipedia: [17] 71.191.189.195 (talk) 22:29, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
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I'm a little concerned about the SVG file (File:Icarly logo.svg) of the iCarly logo. The logo is unfree, and SVG is more superior than the PNG. I tried to request undeletion of the inferior PNG just to avoid infringement of the image's original use and original quality. However, it was rejected, so I'm requesting consensus here. If the format is irrelevant, then is avoiding copyright infringement less important than image quality? George Ho (talk) 21:51, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The important thing here is to give a true representation of the logo so as not to tarnish the reputation of the trademark holder. Some of the fair use criteria go against what the purpose of the logo is for. The copyright holder does not want to minimize use or have low quality copies. The issue of resolution in nonfree images when it comes to svg files is how much information or detail is in the file. In this case there is not much. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:31, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
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Page has been deleted with reason A7 despite the subject being a well-known Irish academic, with dozens of citations on the deleted page. Timing of deletion is suspect as subject has just recently been featured in article on Russia Today on controversial subject - Link here: http://rt.com/news/wikilicious-whistleblower-calendar-glamor-091/ Please advise as to possible steps to reverse deletion Abraedt (talk) 18:33, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The admin who deleted it hasn't given any grounds beyond A7, nor has the admin sandboxed the article for me, but simply deleted it. Request for the article to be reinstated. If an admin wants it deleted, grounds need to be given. Abraedt (talk) 19:01, 23 November 2013 (UTC) The page was already reviewed for Deletion in 2009 and content upheld... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyscooby (talk • contribs) 19:58, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Thank you everyone! Please advise on next steps. Do I resubmit the article or just activate an earlier version? Some additional facts can be added to underline notability if required - for instance the subject has since published a leading text book on international law in Ireland. Thanks! Abraedt (talk) 20:44, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
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Let's give it another chasnce, for I need to add issn and oclc numbers to main source (klyosov 2011), my use of doi (more authorative for scientists, showed it in prepublication nature proceedigs, but issn/oclc show it in a published journal available in 100s of libraries as a paper document) also the same to other all articles showing they are available in tens of university libraries (in paper not just edocumet) and still being sold by mail order, plus to add more studies/sources of same topic that are referencing the main sources. I was not aware of 7 days limit of discussion and days wasted in wild goose chase because the other partyies did not specifiy which part of notability they allude to. article is essential for genetic diseases studies for many diseases are race specific and paternal line, even y-chromosome.the page perfectly meets notability wiki policy guidelines, my posts in the discussion were in adherence to notability/reliable sources: primary source?secondary source, while other editors like user-agricolae were stonewalling/word play and making arguments outside the notability guideline of which the page nominated for deletion for deletion in the first place.I contacted administrator coffee but no response. The article is important for Arabs and i would appreciate serious adminstration review of discussionViibird (talk) 02:22, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
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the page perfectly meets notability wiki policy guidelines, my posts in the discussion were in adherence to notability/reliable sources: primary source?secondary source, while editor agricolae was stonewalling and making arguments outside the notability guideline of which he nominated the page for deletion in the first place Viibird (talk) 02:15, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
because the scientific community have consensus that galilee modal haplotype credible according to the several studies sited in the article. so 2 perons beat the scientific community? consensus of deletion discussion is not part of notability wiki guidelinesViibird (talk) 22:01, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
and the deletion was made by non administrator!Viibird (talk) 02:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
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Significant new information has come to light since the deletion that justifies recreating the deleted page. I first discussed the matter with the admin who deleted the page. I have no connection whatsoever with the subject of the article, except that I'm aware of their significance through hearing national radio interviews and reading funk music articles, and I have been present at their performances. ClareGC (talk) 16:08, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
The reason given for deleting the page was "A7: Article about a band, singer, musician, or musical ensemble, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject". I can detail the band's importance and significance, and can rewrite the main article to give it a neutral perspective, add further information (such as their 2011 and 2012 compilation albums) and add citations to support each statement, using secondary sources. That would also address all issues marked at the top of the article. The review that was cited in the article, by David Barros, Too Much Flavour magazine (2008) http://www.toomuchflavour.co.uk/review_funkshone.html mainly charts the factual history of the band, but it also compares their singer (Natasha Watts) to Aretha Franklin and notes that the band's music is eclectic and original. It quotes, "Funkshone serve as a reminder to us all that funk is truly alive and still happening, and it's happening in the UK" and "Funkshone aren't afraid of going where other bands may fear to step with music", which shows their music is new and original (That their songs are not merely covers and remixes that many bands produce) and that they are progressing the genre on from its routes in 1970s America. I would add more recent articles, such as a BBC review by Angus Taylor (March 2012) on Funkshone's second album release http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/23b6 which states "There is a sure progression in the group's own musical journey" "towards increasingly cinematic, orchestral sounds". The band have added a strings section for their latest album, expanding from funk music to include other genres. It also states, "In opening younger listener’s ears to the original music that inspires them, Bandoni and co perform a very useful function indeed". It is considered usual for funk bands to copy the historic sounds, so it's significant that this is new music evolving in a new direction and having an influencing on the young. When interviewed by Craig Charles on his BBC Radio 6 Music show (9 June 2012) Mike Bandoni explained how the band are "Trying to push it a little bit more, to get as original, different and diverse as possible". The full interview is still available in the 'BBC Radio 6 Music Best Bits' highlights for the network http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/showcase/clips/p00tr7zp/in/collection/p00h6w5p. The band is successful, as they receive regular national airplay, and their most recent album went straight to number 1 in the UK funk charts - Caroline Cook, The Wokingham Times (13/4/2012) http://www.getreading.co.uk/whats-on/music/nine-piece-band-going-funky-town-4202431. The article also mentions the albums the band have produced in Japan, so they are not only successful in Europe, and that they have brought in "instruments such as a theremin, a mellotron and a hammered dulcimer." and "all the sounds on the album are authentic, with no samples or loops and only using vintage instruments”. Funkshone have performed with Fred Wesley who was part of James Brown's band, who is the originator of funk music, http://www.bluesandsoul.com/live_item/236/fred_wesley_and_the_new_jbs_the_impelllers_funkshone_229_the_venue_2712/. Their live performances need to be to the largest audiences as a 9-piece band is very large for a funk band. There are many reviews of their music production and live performances in Blues And Soul magazine. Snowboy writes that their most recent album "has a very informed sound throughout. It is diverse in styles. It takes us on a journey of all the permutations of Funk from mid-60's to mid-70's", and this is educational to listeners, http://www.bluesandsoul.com/column/142/the_snowboy_jazz_andand_funk_column/. In the same journal, Emrys Baird describes Funkshone as "one of the UK's top funk bands" http://www.bluesandsoul.com/review/1767/funkshone_2_skyline_recordings/. The band are influential, as their original songs have been remixed and covered by other bands, and one example is played within the radio show interview mentioned above. The remixes improve the exposure of the band and diversity of the music industry. Their producer and drummer, Mike Bandoni, won Greatest British Living Funk or Soul Drummer in a 2009 BBC vote, and became drummer for The Fantasy Funk band, which is made up of the leading musicians in UK funk music [24]. The band are working on a new album. ClareGC (talk) 17:24, 23 November 2013 (UTC) Could someone look into this band please? The entire deletion 'discussion' consisted of a single person stating that they'd done a web search and could only find "free downloads and such". This is not true! For instance, their latest album, which is available to purchase in high street shops on vinyl and CD, went immediately to number 1 in the UK funk charts, and they have record labels in the UK (covering European sales) and in Japan. A second person then added 'delete', but there is nothing to indicate they weren't influenced by having read the misleading comment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClareGC (talk • contribs) 12:59, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
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<Hello, I recently had a discussion with an administrator about the deletion of the page Carol Kicinski. Mark Arsten was the person I spoke with and he suggested I file a request for undeletion. I was able to find more sources for the article and would like to add them to the page to improve the article. The page was deleted because of notability, but I have since found additional sources that can help prove notability. Please let me know if you need additional information from me or how to proceed with the request for undeletion. Thank you.>--M.Renae (talk) 13:51, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Here are the new sources I'd like to add to the existing sources:
http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2011/07/with_a_nut_crust_mascarpone_be.html Thanks, --M.Renae (talk) 20:59, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi everyone, thank you for putting this up for consideration. Is the article temporarily open again? I couldn't tell by the discussion if it is already open somewhere so I can go in and make changes or if that is still in debate. I appreciate all your input on this and would also appreciate any help in the edits so that this article can stay on wikipedia. Please let me know what the next steps are for this. Thanks, --M.Renae (talk) 13:46, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
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The Article Appy Pie was deleted as its source list was considered as press releases, trivial mentions, deadlinks and blog posts, However this was not correct as the source list were from highly reputable news sources where journalists have featured mentions about the Company, As suggested by Mark Arsten (talk) I created a well sourced draft in my userspace and here is the link for your kind review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cxs107/sandbox/Appy_Pie and after reviewing the same Mark Arsten (talk) asked me to request for deletion review for my Article Appy Pie -Cxs107 (talk) 22:08, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
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Well, I've been a log-time DRV contributor, but this is to my memory the first filing. A few weeks ago, I stumbled across a nastily juvenile and seldom-used redirect titled "WP:CUM", which is an alternate to WP:CMF for the Wikipedia:Creation and usage of media files help file. Thryduulf closed it as a "keep" however, due to what is IMO an misapplication of WP:NOTCENSORED policy. The concept of "not censored is one I have defended many, many times, but from what I read into that policy, it is only applicable to article space. We can and do censor ourselves in project-space, there is no policy that protects the creation of an obscene term to title a user helpme file. The admin also cites the utility of the redirect, but this assertion is debunked by comparing the "what links here" of both (minus the page itself and the RfD) "WP:CUM" (6) vs. "WP:CMF" (28). In fact, over 500 link directly to the help file itself. The word "CUM" is not intrinsically linked to the creation and usage of media; it is not necessary to direct new users to this file via this shortcut, it has been used 6 times in the 3 years that it has existed, and it is not protected by our project's antio-censorship policy. The closing admin IMO erred counting 2 keep voted that were grounded in a censorship argument, and further in his explanation of utility and usefulness. Sometimes we need to consider the public face we put towards our readers and contributors; to maintain this shortcut looks egregiously bad. Tarc (talk) 14:26, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
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This article was speedy deleted by secret (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) under WP:TNT claiming it was full of BLP violations. After checking the deleted history, I find that it has recently been lifted of semi-protection, and has been plagued by vandalism, as this person is a heavy target for it. The lastest version of the article appears not to have many policy problems (the only one I see is a non-RS as the last source). I have temporarily restored the article pending further discussion as well as semi-protected it indefinitely. wL<speak·check> 08:19, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
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A well-attended MfD discussion was recently closed by Yunshui with "Mark as historical" as the outcome. In the discussion, the idea of removing the page's contents was brought up. After the close, a few editors have made extensive changes to the page. After discussion at [29], [30] and [31] Biosthmors' change has been reverted but Casliber's changes remain. —rybec 07:46, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
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Same thing as the below DRV on Adam Reifer. As the discussion was closing, BASEBALL/N, the justification to keep the page, was changed, such that the Australian Baseball League was removed, meaning that Widlansky now fails that guideline. He also fails WP:GNG, more importantly. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:15, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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This was a close one (3 vs. 3, including the nominator). However, the keep votes were made on the basis of passing Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Baseball due to the individual having played in the Dominican Professional Baseball League. Due to numerous simultaneous nominations of fringe minor leaguers who could be argued to pass BASEBALL/N for this reason, and yet fail WP:GNG, this discussion commenced, which resulted in a tightening up of BASEBALL/N #2. Reifer now fails BASEBALL/N, as well as GNG. Because of all the simultaneous nominations, I failed to vote in this one, but would've voted delete. I think we should delete it now here, instead of through a new nomination. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:40, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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User:West.andrew.g/Popular redlinks says that there were 23,228 attempts in a typical week (including from outside Wikipedia) to access page Lil Chuckee. Some sort of page is needed there. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:44, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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I was recently notified that the page Federico Pistono, was being considered for deletion. Obviously, just as I did not interfere with the original article, I could not be part of the discussion either, so I just observed and let Wikipedia run its course. After it was deleted, I contacted the admin in question TParis, expressing some concerns, and his reply was as following:
From what I understand, there were two main concerns with the article as it was:
I do not intend to discuss the merits of the decision. My intention here is to simply provide links to articles which I think might have been overlooked by those who reviewed the page initially, possibly because they were not properly indexed by Google. I rest in the hands of the Wikipedia community to decide what to do with them.
Finally, there were four awards/recognitions listed, perhaps the most significant of which being the Young Knight Prize Award (Premio Cavalierato Giovanile) (source). I don't know how many of these references are useful and fall under Wikipedia's policies of reliability etc. I just thought it was worth mentioning them. best, 4v4l0n42 (talk) 02:50, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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Clearly notable. People voting to delete are clearly Causasio-centric and conspiring to deny South Americans a ny positive recognition. He who shouts the loudest thinks we will prevail in this rigged discussion, by keeping the Indigenous peoples down. Similar phenomena are clearly seen on articles criticism Hugo Chavez on Wikipedia. Churrasco Eater (talk) 00:34, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Please note that this deletion review is an exact repeat of a very recent one that was closed early for a reason unrelated to the review itself. While all responses for the short duration of that review were positive or neutral, and the closing administrator offered to userify the article, I would like to ascertain community consensus before working on the article. Furthermore, I plan to notify every user who was involved in and/or notified of that discussion - if you are one of these users, it is not necessary to declare this below (but I do not object to it either, of course). Be aware that at least one user who participated in the prior discussion has declined to do so in this one citing the view that participating in repeats of procedurally closed discussions is unnecessary. I anticipate this being a difficult deletion review due to the relatively small number of reliable sources, but I'll try to make my case anyways. Please consider that this television show is a series of shorts and that the sourcing standards for notability should perhaps not be set quite as high as for those normally aired in regular timeslots due to this. Anyways, here are the new reliable sources I've found: The following reliable source was already present in the most recently deleted revision, but I have found additional links from it besides the first one: Lastly but quite possibly most importantly, this show was nominated for an award. Yes, it was only a nomination, not a win, but I think it still adds to its notability significantly: I would also like to ask that you take into consideration that DRV is apparently not supposed to be as stringent as AFD in terms of sourcing requirements. More importantly, please consider that WP:GNG only requires multiple reliable sources, so even two such sources could theoretically suffice. Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
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I have more sources and have a non biased version. Dterrybeano (talk) 22:44, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Dterrybeano, yet another sock, see WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Johngalea24. Boleyn (talk) 06:18, 11 November 2013 (UTC) |
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The user who closed the discussion did so with the explanation "Consensus is clear to Merge/redirect to Li (surname) (non-admin closure)", despite that the discussion does not show any definite consensus regarding the issue. --benlisquareT•C•E 14:04, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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The deletion discussion was not posted on the articles talk page (I was only watching the talk page, and was surprised when it just popped up being deleted) and as such, it is possible that other interested parties (such as myself) who watch the articles talk page may have disagreed with the deletion. Further more this was a non-admin closure. Surely another week, with a relevant section created in the articles talk page should suffice in a more fair deletion of the article. If it's a matter of lack of reliable sources, we have these four sources Fictional Skunks:, Reading the Rabbit, Tiny Toons Characters, and Fictional French People available.--SexyKick 08:24, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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The closing administrator performed a speedy delete without anyone challenging the proposed qualified secondary sources. None of the 3 users who voted for speedy deletion attempted to resolve the presented issues by improving the article as per the alternatives to deletion. No editors of the article except myself participated in the deletion proposal voting. The deletion discussion was closed after mere hours (h) instead of after expiration of the minimal discussion period of full 7 days. No new voters supporting deletion appeared after I proposed qualified secondary sources and there were at least full 6 days remaining for editors to vote. The deletion discussion page was blanked regardless of all information contained in the article and in the discussion – including the verifiable information claimed merely defamatory and in no way inclusive into an encyclopedia – being publicly available elsewhere, including on the Internet. The closing administrator has not answered my first line of questions thoroughly, is acting too aggressively, and has issued a threat that they will block my account permanently while I am merely trying to discuss the deletion and argue about it with them. Thus, I am unable to continue trying to resolve the issue with them as then they might block my account to prevent me from presenting a valid argument. It may have no bearing, but I notice that they are employed by the United States Air Force and I happened to participate in the penetration into the computer system of their Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, where their Air Force Materiel Command, Air Force Research Laboratory etc. are located, due to which some conflict of interest exists. The United States Air Force is the information warfare component of the Department of Defense. I would also like to note that my phone line was to be cut by a neighbor who is partially of the same ethnically as the person the article on whom I contributed to, my tires were repeatedly punctured, I was arrested without being charged with anything at all, had my person searched, was interrogated about various nonsense, and my residence was examined etc. after editing Wikipedia in English in early 2007, so I do not take issues here lightly anymore. It is possible that this was due to being Mihovil Lovrićs' grandson and not due to anything here. I am even forced to edit over Tor – I've been granted an exception – to prevent imminent physical danger at this location due to contributing to articles on controversial topics at Wikipedia. -- Neven Lovrić (talk) 14:07, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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I am as big a fan of saving articles from AFD with new sources as anyone else. But it's tough to read this closure as an implementation of consensus rather than as an admin supervote. The issue under discussion at AFD was not primarily whether sources that mention this subject exist (trivially, they do), but whether they establish independent notability for him. I inquired with Coffee, the closing administrator, but his response furthers my belief that this was a supervote; this closure was based on the administrator's valuation of notability (rather than the consensus viewpoint), his opinion about the "inherent notability" of a position that carries no such benefit under policy, and his acceptance of interviews with the subject as sources establishing notability (despite not being independent sources, by definition). Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:48, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Per WP:CCC. We have recently had several discussions (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_unusual_deaths_(7th_nomination), Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_chemical_compounds_with_unusual_names_(5th_nomination),Wikipedia:Deletion_review#List_of_unusual_deaths, Wikipedia:VPP#Proposal:_Lists_must_be_based_on_objective_criteria, Wikipedia:VPP#List_criteria) where consensus is emerging that "Lists of unusual X" are indeed allowed (even if many agree that somewhat stringent inclusion criteria are needed). Now, for consistency it seems this list, that has been deleted in 2009 (four years ago) could be allowed to exist again. The concept seems to have a similar level of sourcing of the abovementioned articles (cfr. Google Scholar hits for example) and as such I'd like to see it discussed for possible recreation. I hope this is the correct venue. cyclopiaspeak! 10:45, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
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Nannadeem (talk) 17:06, 5 November 2013 (UTC) No matter what monarchy of admins. No acceptance of printed material what a definition of source. No matter What a justice of all you scholar admin, my one article (Elf or Jinn) during editing deleted. I have got a award of making Jinn as God, see his comments on my talk page.Nannadeem (talk) 17:06, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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There were previous problems with lack of notability WP:GNG for this page. However, I have founded notable sources for the article that reference the publishing house and it's activities/history directly and ask that the article be relisted. See my talk page for a draft of what the article and its references will look like. User:OR drohowa/sandbox OR drohowa (talk) 18:31, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
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This article had sufficient GNG sources. WP:INHERIT doesn't censor WP:GNG sources, rather it's an essay on arguments for Wikipedian's themselves to avoid making during an AfD eg. "I, Green Cardamom, believe this topic is notable because I, Green Cardamom, believe this topic is famous." .. rather in this case, it is the sources which express he is notable by virtue of newspaper articles about him. INHERIT is often misunderstood this way, it's not meant to censor reliable sources, rather original arguments made by Wikipedians. (Also INHERIT is an essay and not an established guideline. While it is often viewed as a guideline, it is not because there is no consensus for that, and probably shouldn't trump the guidelines when there is debate over INHERITs application.) Green Cardamom (talk) 17:31, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
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The closing admin attempted to prevent any future AFDs of the article, which is beyond his reach. No reasonable analysis of the input can justify a close as "keep." "No consensus" would have been reasonable, and "delete" is within reach, but not "keep", and certainly not "keep" with this extraordinary preemptive clause that prohibits bringing this thing to AFD again. The deletion arguments are summarized pretty simply: "unusual" is a highly subjective deletion criteria and there isn't any reliable source that allows us to deem any specific death unusual, the community has tried time and time again to agree upon an objective set of criteria and failed. On the "keep side", we have Dream Focus arguing that there is an objective set of criteria while he simultaneously advocates ignoring objective criteria at Talk:List of unusual deaths/Archive 8#no need to use the actual word "unusual", you can think for yourself, Edison arguing that the same objective criteria actually exist, without providing evidence that editors actually follow them. LM2000 and others argue for keep simply because it has passed AFD before, others arguing that Time Magazine coverage of the article mandates keeping it. This whole "objective criteria exist" argument fails to recognize that editors, on the whole, ignore the sourcing criterion and even take to the talk page to argue that requiring sources to describe the death as "unusual" is unfair and unreasonable. Does the criterion exist? Certainly. Is there widespread consensus to use it? Not really. Colonel Warden even attempted to argue that the Fortean Times is a reliable source in his "keep" argument. We also have "keep" votes that argue in favor of original research, like Necrothesp, and other keep arguments arguing per Necrothesp. Making a troublesome AFD worse, we had Martinevans123 disrupting the proceedings in a determined effort to prevent reasonable discussion, making no fewer than 90 comments that generally consisted of snipes at other editors' comments. As for his actual "Keep" vote, it was not based on any Wikipedia policy, it was WP:ITSPOPULAR. It's impossible to provide very much weight to "it's fixable!" for an article that has been to AFD seven times and never been repaired, and that's the majority "keep" argument here. It would be reasonable to conclude that there was no consensus here. It's probably a little early to conclude that the deletes finally have it and that the community is willing to recognize that the article truly is irreparable. Decreeing that the delete side has no foundation whatsoever for its arguments and is being disruptive is out of bounds, though. Sometimes it takes eight or nine passes before people start to see how weak the keep side of an argument is, and there's no reason to declare that this article is immune to future deletion discussion. I'd love to see an overturn to delete, but I recognize that that would be as or more problematic as this close. Realistically, I want an overturn to no consensus and a removal of the language that dictates that no further AFDs can ever be started against this article. —Kww(talk) 16:53, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 Whether something is fixable does not depend on whether it's actually fixed within any particular timescale. If I say something can be fixed, then what I mean is that there are people who could fix it. If I mean "I, personally, will fix it before the next AfD", then that is what I will say. If I have not said that, and the content remains un-fixed three months (or three years) later, then the impact on my personal credibility is zero. I hope the difference between "fixable" and "imminently about to be fixed by me" is now clear to everyone concerned and we can move on. This is all of very tangential relevance to the actual DRV and I suggest that we hat it.—S Marshall T/C 01:14, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
OK, we get that you don't get on now both of you stop the bickering or I'm going to close this early to end the disruption. Enough. Spartaz Humbug! 07:12, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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The article was deleted under the CSD A10 which says it is a "Recently created article that duplicates an existing topic". I don't think the article meets this criteria since it does not duplicates any existing topic. There seems to be a rough concensus at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Jain-Hindu_relations against speedy deletion. I have also tried to talk to the deleting admin but am not convinced with the reasons that he gives. Rahul Jain (talk) 04:35, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Therefore my view is that we should allow creation of an appropriate article on the topic, but we endorse the deletion of the content repeatedly added by The Rahul Jain, which has been removed a number of times now in varying forms. The message here for the Rahul Jain is: making minor changes and re-submitting this content with a different title will not work. We want an article on this subject, but we don't want this article on this subject.—S Marshall T/C 13:41, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Without waiting a single day, page was deleted. And when I asked for review, I have not get satisfactory reply. After all we need some time for add to information, there is no promotional content. I am not close to Article, as he mention. I just want to value addition. GKCH (talk) 09:06, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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I anticipate this being a difficult deletion review due to the relatively small number of reliable sources, but I'll try to make my case anyways. Please consider that this television show is a series of shorts and that the sourcing standards for notability should perhaps not be set quite as high as for those normally aired in regular timeslots due to this. Anyways, here are the new reliable sources I've found: The following reliable source was already present in the most recently deleted revision, but I have found additional links from it besides the first one: Lastly but quite possibly most importantly, this show was nominated for an award. Yes, it was only a nomination, not a win, but I think it still adds to its notability significantly: I would also like to ask that you take into consideration that DRV is apparently not supposed to be as stringent as AFD in terms of sourcing requirements. More importantly, please consider that WP:GNG only requires multiple reliable sources, so even two such sources could theoretically suffice. Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 19:08, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Less than an hour of time allowance was provided despite over 5 hours of work and dozens of edits on the page (even 2 edits to address the original editors tag after the tag was assigned).
-- Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 11:12, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
Your specific quotes of concern I dulled down, part of the problem I keep seeing both in this thread and on all other multiple threads (again no talk page so we now have several conversations overlapping) is that the article has too much non-neutral language, but as you put it Jreferee those "independent sources" currently listed also tend to describe the RIDC in this way (tho it is a lot of reading). The reason is state governors, global conglomerates from Volkswagon to Gulf Oil to Sony to US Steel, federal commissions, the who's who of those in SW Pennsylvania and such academics as Carnegie Mellon University all use the RIDC as a clearinghouse of sorts and co-ordinating arm to plan, research, develop and network resources in a quarter of Pennsylvania. If the language was a bit over the top it is from those citations of CEOs Westinghouse is meeting with a leading researchers and discussing this with the Governor's economic chief and the County Commissioners so yes even the RSs frame it as the cat's meow not because it claims to be but because the organizations and people with the power have chosen to centralize economic development issues in it since the beginning. That said I toned down some of the language but the citations do surprise on what this organization had its fingers in, again not because it is bragging but simply because it was the efficient means to an end. I'll take another look at the intro but given that this entity is involved in the vast majority of development and redevelopment I am open to suggestions on what if anything we can do to lessen confusion on its own talk page. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 05:04, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
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